• Nathanael November 21, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    Might have to try this, as someone who’s been placed into the WRAG, and just received notice of my appeal documents being sent onto the tribunal. This also sounds like the part of the regulations that a social worker mentioned in the “People’s report” of the WCA. They are both worded the same, so are they just putting people into the WRAG in order that they only have to continue paying ESA for a year, rather than indefinitely?!! By definition of these regulations, all those assessed into the WRAG could all fall into the support group? Which would make a lot of people!!

    • JJ November 21, 2012 at 9:03 pm

      Let us know how you get on. Solidarity, Nathaniel!

  • Nathanael November 21, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    Having re-read my appeal papers, they’re not disputing that I have a Limited Capability for Work. But they say I DON’T have Limited Capability for Work related activity. Talk about confusing. Basically as I said above then, I could have been placed straight into the support group on the grounds that I have LCW, but instead they’ve put me into the WRAG group, even though both regs 29 and 35 have exactly the same meaning!!

  • Warren Marris November 22, 2012 at 10:39 am

    There is no denying that there needs to be reform… We have sadly seen so many reports of fraudsters who are abusing the system, but this disgrace that is currently happening is beyond belief!

    I have a genuine story or you of a gentleman who, despite his illness, is determined to work as he always has… Yet he was denied his benefits inbetween periods of work because of these pathetic assessments.

    My mothers Boyfriend had to go and see one of these idiots – He managed to get the assessment overturned but should never have happened in the First Place… Why? Lets look at the evidence 1) He has Prostate Cancer, He may have only a few years to live…
    2) When he was working just a month before, He was involved in an industrial accident that left him seriously Injured – Leicester City Council admitted Liability yet he was left 50% disabled as a direct result
    3) Following the accident, He had two strikes
    4) 5 Different NHS consultants have declared him Unfit for work… One DWP NURSE does a 10 minute examination and declares him FIT FOR WORK!!! Since when does a NURSE know more than 5 TRAINED CONSULTANTS WHO SPECIALISE IN INJURY AND CANCER?

    It stands to reason the entire system should be working DIRECTLY with the NHS and NOT as a seperate entity… Or maybe thats part of the problem… There are a few (admittidly a minority) of Doctors who are are quick to sign people off sick who should not be… And does anyone really want to admit that this happens?

    Whole system needs a real shake up… And there needs to be an end to these disgraceful and pathetic assessments

    • Mo Stewart December 5, 2012 at 11:16 am

      I ‘m wondering where the “many reports of fraudsters” are published? If refering to national press stories then please don’t be fooled. I have researched this area now for almost three years Warren and the numbers of “fraudsters” are a tiny fraction. This claim by the Government is a smokescreen to introduce the American system of welfare, using insurance, to eventually fund our welfare services so please don’t be fooled.

    • mary kitt March 28, 2014 at 11:51 am

      time and time again I hear the same abhorrent results. where a nurse at Atos over-rules a specialist. it makes me so angry

  • Humanity2012 November 22, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Well Good Luck

  • friend November 22, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    Letters don’t make a difference. My GP wrote a detailed 2 page letter during my appeal and I had another letter from my private specialist as well as other evidence, but the DWP ignored them all! Was forced to go to tribunal and won. ATOS had lied, manipulated and ‘forgot’ information from my assessment. I found this shocking. The whole thing is a con. I think they refuse everyone and force them to go to tribunal in order to ‘weed out’ and bully who they feel are undeserving (everyone) in the hope that stress will either kill them off or scare people off or hope they are too ill to fight. The only benefit scroungers in this country are ATOS, scamming the whole country for profit. What a waste of money. My health has suffered so much as a result it’s delayed my recovery and my ability to return to work. I’m very poorly now and was suicidal and close to having a complete mental breakdown. To go thorough this process knowing ATOS lies and the DWP ignores medical advice is terrifying. I would never go to an unrecorded assessment in future. If they had been honest in the assessment and actually supported me I may have been back in some part time work by now, or at least on the way. I feel they have taken the time I could have used for healing and finding suitable work and pushing my boundaries in a safe, supportive environment instead I’ve had to fight for my basic right to live. I paid NI & high rate of tax before I took ill and yet I’m denied when I desperately need help. At the moment I’ve had a serious relapse and I directly blame ATOS and the DWP for this. It’s costing them more in the long run. They are clueless idiots. They have left me very poorly and a mental wreck… not exactly in a good state fit for work (or healing). I’m very angry as I really miss working – I loved it, using my skills and helping people… it brought me a feeling of self worth, wellbeing, companionship and money of course! Anyone who thinks being ill, lonely and living in poverty is an easy life is an ignorant idiot.

    • Mo Stewart December 5, 2012 at 11:18 am

      According to the DWP Contract with Atos, the Atos assessment has PRIORITY, hence letters of support can and are regularly dismissed. In any other circumstance this would be viewed as tyranny where significant documents can be disregarded.

  • Humanity2012 November 23, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    It is Bloody All Disgusting like the Tory Shower

    Just because someone can chew and shallow does Not make them capable of Work
    nor just going to a Food Take Away Shop to get some Chicken and Chips because
    they cannot handle the Pressure of Cooking like using a Cooker

    Scrap the Work Capability Assessment and Sack All Incompetent Officials

  • Humanity2012 November 23, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    When People have been Waiting Months for a Reconsider Decision it shows
    what a Poxy Mess this Country is Get the Tory Boneheads Out of Office that is
    when Hope Begins

    It is Un Acceptable that Shower being in Office Any Longer

    2 and a Half Years of those Stinking Ignoramuses is too Long

  • sharon Leet November 23, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    I am going to try the appeal based on regulation 35. Thank-you for pointing me in the right direction. They failed to understand I will not be able to leave the house let alone attend these interviews. They have agreed to do the first one by telephone. Anyone one know if they completely stop benefits until I attend or the appeal process is complete.

    • Elaine W November 28, 2012 at 4:22 pm

      I was told that I would be placed on the assessment level, which they have done – until my appeal. I get a total of £38.37 in ESA per week but at least its something!

    • cheryl November 30, 2012 at 5:03 pm

      yes they do stop all benafits i was ill couldent go following week they stopped my incom support that was august 2012 back in feb they stopped mt dla told me i was claiming fraudiletly im vertually crippled with athritis prolapsed discs bone degenarat disease my main nerve is being crushed by bons colapsing still fighting for dla to be given back had my income support back a month after they stoped it so that was september only been able to eat 1 meal a week to keep car on road as unable to walk with out sevear pain

      • JJ November 30, 2012 at 5:45 pm


        • mary kitt March 28, 2014 at 11:58 am

          you need an Advocacy to fight this

          • Chrissy April 9, 2014 at 4:32 pm

            Where can we find an advocate? I am being harassed by DWP into attending wfis too. I am bedridden 80% of my time with severe ME/CFS, and I also suffer depression and anxiety. They are completely messing me up, and even expect me to complete a 2 week journal of when I sleep, when I am awake, and what I am doing when I am awake!

  • Sara Pitt November 23, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    Neither of the links above allow me to view or download the files (cover letter and appeal letter) – they just go to a google login page. Does anyone know why/where I can get them please? Thanks.

    • JJ November 24, 2012 at 5:05 am

      Please sign in to google to view the page

  • David November 24, 2012 at 8:51 am

    This is great and may actually do some good for a lot of people if they can get their G.P to sign. I sent this to a friend on Wednesday or yesterday presented it to her own G.P who (after much reluctance, thinking it was a trick of some kind) actually signed it for her.

    We have some suggestions around getting around the “reluctant G.Ps”. This particular doctor seemed to be in agreement until he began to question where it had came from and grunted “what is this black triangle?, why is there no name?” She managed to muddle around it and explain it is “a support group for people who are appealing disability benefit decisions” (her G.P had already signed her off despite being declared fit for work).

    I’m well aware of the failures of Citizens Advice and Council-based Welfare Rights Services etc but I feel if they (and all the other specific Disability-related organisations such as were on board with this and could even give their name to the letter, or even better reproduce it on a letterhead, it would cast a great more authority and G.Ps would be less reluctant to sign it for people.

    • Dr Stephen M Carty November 28, 2012 at 10:15 pm

      I agree, we are currently working locally and nationally to get this distributed to GPs through formal networks such as the BMA. Work in progress. We are going to be writing to citizens advice and others shortly. We felt we ought to get it out there ASAP and hopefully it will gather momentum and support

  • Humanity2012 November 24, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Absolutely True what You say Friend
    ” Anyone who thinks being ill, lonely and living in poverty is an easy life is an ignorant idiot. ”

    The Craven and the None so Blind as Those who will Not See

  • Humanity2012 November 24, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    A Better World Starts at Home in the United Kingdom

    With the Abolition of the Capitalist System Slave Labour Exploitation the Con Dem
    Tyrant Dictatorship and also with the Redistribution of Wealth from the Rich to the Poor

  • Alison November 27, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    Hi, has anyone actually successfully used this?

    • Dr Stephen M Carty November 28, 2012 at 10:09 pm

      Yes , I have now used it a dozen times or so with my patients. It appears to have been pretty effective. Several decisions have been overturned immediately including a reversal of a tribunal decision and several cases where the tribunal was cancelled and the claimant awarded ESA. If it is applied correctly I think it could be very helpful for some claimants.

      • Stevorch December 5, 2012 at 7:35 pm

        My GP pretty much blankly refused to sign this document. I think he was scared by it. Sincerely hope other deserving people have more enlightened doctors than I have.

      • Paul Davidson December 26, 2012 at 6:55 pm

        Hello Dr M Carty.

        I few weeks back I managed to leave the forms on my Dr’s desk She was very anxious about even touching them I explained Black Triangle are reaching out to Doctors all over the U.K. This got her attention. ”Black Triangle”. She said her surgery does not like to get involved many others are in same situation and say Oh I will go along to WRAG And give it a try ? She knows im suicidal to start with and trying to flee my home town. ATOS in the original phone call after Brown Envelope had to call an ambulance to make sure I did not kill myself. they transferred me straight over to E.S.A. As we spoke without need for a medical without the need to fill in the questionair form Confirmed later by the Job Centre I called in distress. later C.A.B. Told me everyone has to fill in the form. if so I was callously lied to while suicidal. I have been dumped in to the WRAG Starting tomorrow pending an appeal letter sent by C.A.B. C.A.B. Are so busy im waiting for the appeal worker to call me do my appeal over the phone they tell me to get evidence from G.P. G.P. Refuses but C.A.B. Can ask for it. but C.A.B. Wont.

        The whole process is flawed. Doctors seem scarred and very unconcerned at the likely outcome. They have failed be badly as they know im in emotional distress with a big history.

        I fear so many are going to suffer very badly myself included.

        Thank you for helping people I was proud to hand in the forms even though no promise to read them. and a financial charge if they do.


  • Elaine W November 28, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    Had two assessments with ATOS – the first gave me 15 points so I was placed in a working group. I was there for six months. I was told that the Jobcentre would contact me and I would have to see an advisor who would assist me in preparing to go back to work. I am still waiting for my appointment lol. I was called for another ATOS assessment and the doctor gave me 0 points, although I suffer from two degenerative conditions. How was I better? I appealed and was given £38.37 a week to live on. This happened in March and my tribunal was on Friday. I turned up for the hearing to be told that a page was missing from the 100 page report that ATOS had sent. It was the page that the Health Care Professional had to give his reasons for me being awarded 0 points – as the tribunal judge said, probably the most important page in the report. The tribunal staff phoned and asked for the page to be faxed immediately – three phone calls and thirty minutes later, they faxed the wrong page! By this time, the judge, although angry, was unable to continue as the next case was waiting and had no option but to adjourn my hearing. I have been told that the earliest this will now take place is January, but could be later. No come back on ATOS though – they can do what they want and cost the country a load of money for these tribunals, muck up paperwork, lie through their teeth etc but not be held responsible – and they actually get a bonus for every person they knock off the sick and say that they are fit for work!!

    • JJ November 28, 2012 at 4:44 pm

      The judge should have ruled in your favour! Never mind a bloody adjounement! The Tribunals Service leaves much to be desired!!! Grrrr!

  • John December 3, 2012 at 1:42 am

    Hi, very depressed and i a bad dark place now. Esa has put me in wrag, i spend 22 hours a day in v bad pain on my bed, most times drugged up/ over dosed to cope, with tramadol max cymbalta gabapentin
    They want me to get a job within 12 months or loose benifits. Worry and stress is bad, i have reserched helium hoods and other methods. I cant cope with worry nor function. I dont want it this way but cant face more pain than i have now, i cant sit nor stand for more than a few mins, i have spinal stenisis, have had a llamanectomy. I have painfull diabetic nuropethy artoritous of the spine , cant walk mote than a few steps. Have v low sphintal muscle tone. Yes i crap myself to if i cant get there in a few secconds, this is due to parrylises from spinal stenosis. Yes they still place me in wrag. O and my wife is also disabled, we are each others carers, yet they want to send me to attend work courses . You wonder now why i want to check out v soon, i am only alive now because i cant let my wife cope on het own, i hope i dont weaken as i have all i need to leave at a monents notice, look up detergent suicide, this is second favoured one , i have hydrocloric acid and bonzi sulpher stashed away in a safe place for use if and when , helium hood is no 1 method, this is used by dignitas. I love life and have a great family and grandkids but cant do with faused forture. Thanks john sorry for being so black, but no point in not telling it as it is here

    • Stephen December 3, 2012 at 10:12 am


      I am very sorry to hear the situation you are in. I am staggered that you have been put in the WRAG group. It is clear that this decision presents you with a “substantial risk” of your mental health worsening. Please let your GP know whats going on and ask that he/ she complete the regulation 35 appeal form that is attached above. I have a number of patients who have had the decision regarding WRAG/support overturned once this letter is submitted. Don’t give up hope!

      kindest regards


      Dr Stephen M Carty

      Medical Advisor Black Triangle Campaign

  • RD December 6, 2012 at 12:17 am

    Hi, I am very fortunate in having a very supportive GP who is happy to do a report to accompany my ESA50. Is this a good time to ask her to cite regulations 29 & 35, or is it better to hold off on them until if an appeal is needed?

    Also, would it be better to get her to fill out an ESA 113, which I can download from the internet for her, or just do a usual report/letter.

    Despite being very lucky with my GP I have been in a complete panic since the brown envelope landed on my doormat on Monday to help me celebrate international day of disabled people. And the letter was just to say they were starting the migration process.

    I know I am not fit to work (If I was I’d still be in work and wouldn’t have been medically retired by the NHS’s occupational health department) and I know my gp is of the same opinion…….but equally I am well aware that how I actually am has little bearing on ATOS/DWP decision making.

  • Compassionate December 7, 2012 at 4:59 am

    Hello All

    Firstly I am so sorry you are all suffering and wish you all the very best, please don’t give up on your birthright of a happy life, which you deserve just as much as anyone else. Don’t let this government grind you down. Fight back by staying as strong as possible and uniting with others. We greatly outnumber these nasty callous tyrants and don’t ever forget that they are public servants, paid from public money to serve and protect the public. If they are not doing their job properly they need to be held responsible and sacked.

    I am going to my Appeal Tribunal today armed with lots of information from Atos Miracles (very good source on facebook) and this site too (many thanks to Dr Carty and John Pring for sharing this information).

    What amazes me though is that no one ever seems to mention the fact that there aren’t any jobs to be had! not for the healthy people never mind the sick and disabled people. This callous selfish government together with the greedy bankers have forced us into this recession and caused massive unemployment, yet they are now bullying the weakest members of society, the sick and vulnerable, to do the impossible and find work. How on earth can people find work when there aren’t any jobs!? 2.6 million unemployed! This government has a lot to answer for, it seems they are simply wanting people dead and out of the way. The sooner they are forced out of power the better. We all have a voice people so don’t be afraid to use it.

    • JJ December 7, 2012 at 5:53 am

      They’re scapegoating us because they think we can’t fight back. The truth will out and the Devil will be shamed. So glad you are making good use of our Reg 29 &35 Campaign materials. Let us know how you get on. Love & solidarity, always! Be strong! John McArdle, Black Triangle Campaign X

  • Paul Davidson December 9, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Hello from Paul.

    I have managed to print out the letter To Whome it may concern. I am the Patients Medical practitioner and the Custodian. and Work Capability Assessment (W.CA) decision – Draft appeal letter Dear Doctor.

    But cant find a live link to print out all the other stuff. My own letter to send to apeal with the lists of my condition etc. and the rest with all the Legislation and guidences and reason’s.

    Be good to show doctor everything.

    I never got a chance of a medical and have been put in WRAG Which is being appealed so need clause 35 with full explanation what it means

    Please live links for every document everywhere possible.

    Im seeing my G.P. On friday so need to show her it all. so she can help others in to the future.

    If im forced to attend a work focussed meeting similer due to wrag procedures I will be in extreme risk of suicide” this is not game it’s litrlly deadly serious. it’s well documented why im at risk in a report published by a National Charity where I shared my adverse experiences at a Job Centre (I had charged out in great distress heading for the Tyne Bridge) which is close to the main Job Cebtre I cant ever go back or to similer situation due to 100 percent extreme flashback leading to sertain death.

    This is just part of my reasons for not being able to ever work regardless of group im in regardless of benefit’s awarded or not.

    If your seriously ill your seriously ill and if put in harms way you obviously will suffer the consequences. and so might others if this Guy continues to be abused.neglected or put in instand extreme danger

    Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is an extremely serious and dangerous illness it does not take much to put pul in fight or flight mode.

    My Flight usually means the quickest way to a Bridge to far.



  • alan groggins December 25, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    why respond to atos, lambs to the slaughter you go your sanctioned, atos need taking to court and there tac tics or a public inquiry about there ways, im scared to go, to an injust assessment at atos, alan

  • Kate Lovejoy January 29, 2013 at 9:14 am

    I’m a schizophrenic who’s been put in the WRAG and I’m appealing to be put in the support group. Thanks for posting this info. I showed my doctor the form about regulation 35, but she preferred to write her own letter based on yr info. Will let you know how I get on

  • Gerald February 4, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Is this form to be used after you have been assessed at an appeal or to help you not have any assessment?

  • Dee February 7, 2013 at 9:34 am

    If I remember correctly twas a long time ago!. When I was 16 I entered a contract and signed a document with the government to pay national Insurance for the time when, if I was too sick to work they would look after me, are they therefore not in breech of this contract? anyone know the legality’s???? from a very poorly Dee who cant go out anywhere with out a toilet roll around my neck lol… not got a lot left going for me, but still have a tiny bit of a sense of humour!

  • kay chapman February 8, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    can u please email me those letters please so that i can print them out just in case i ever need them thankyou so much

  • kay chapman February 8, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    as i not that clued up on cut,paste thingys as my text ,to speech cant do it oh my email ykate1963@hotmail.com

  • Jan February 14, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    Just received questionaire.absolutely terrified.

  • Francis Healy-McAdam February 27, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    My wife failed her WCA and we appealed. We got the paperwork in and the examining ‘professional’ had falsified a number of aspects to my wifes claim.

    We went to the first tier tribunal who point blank refused to discuss the falsification allegation. Refused to let me speak as my wifes advocate, and refused to read our prepared notes or let myself or my wife speak to the notes or quote from them!

    There is an upper tier tribunal to appeal to, and we may do this. However we chose to start following a political route at this stage. We bombarded our MP’s office with complaints about the conduct of the case. As a Tory, he initially ignored them. We have also started bombarding his office with freedom of information requests and requests for his opinion on all manner of political matters. The result?

    We have had a letter from his office, basically saying our postal and e-mail activity is breaking his offices ability to respond or do other work. Could we please give them a break? Also our MP is coming to our house tomorrow with his pathetic bag carrier to see how he can help advance our case.

    The moral of this story is that if you really start to overwhelm your MP’s office, you will get attention, and you will get progress. You all know what to do…..

    • David W October 14, 2013 at 3:40 am

      I trust that this case has now resolved, bearing in mind I’m writing nearly eight months later. However, the comments raise some more general issues, to which I wanted to respond.

      The First-Tier Tribunal would have been constituted to decide the claimant’s entitlement to ESA. The Tribunal had no power in law to hear a complaint of alleged ‘falsification’ by the decision-maker, which is presumably why the Tribunal judge refused to allow the commenter to address the Tribunal on that matter.

      It is important to remember that the aim at the First-Tier Tribunal is to attack the decision by using the available evidence to show that an alternative decision is more likely to be correct. Attacks on the decision-making process should be resisted, however much you might wish to vent your sense of hurt, dismay and injustice. The focus should remain on the question before the decision-maker, which will be determined by the law relating to that decision and the facts relevant to that law.

      Matters of procedure (including complaints about the process followed) are of little importance unless the concerns are so grave as to imperil natural justice or procedural fair hearing rights in matter being decided. The likely outcome of establishing a breach of natural justice or procedural fair hearing rights to the necessary high standard is an order quashing the previous decision and the matter being referred to a new decision-maker to make the decision again. This means there is little point rehearsing these arguments before the First-Tier Tribunal, because the First-Tier Tribunal always reaches a fresh decision which replaces the original decision.

      You need a fairly deep understanding of public law to make natural justice or procedural fairness arguments correctly. It’s far more subtle than “I didn’t get my say” or “this decision is wrong, so it’s unfair”. Since April, you cannot get Legal Aid for proceedings before the First-Tier Tribunal, which is another reason to stay away from these arguments at that stage.

      Placing any significant emphasis on irrelevant points, however strongly felt, only detracts from the strength of relevant arguments.

      Any appeal to the Upper Tribunal (or, subsequently, in the courts) must be based on one or more points of law relating to the First-Tier Tribunal proceedings. The Upper Tribunal is not a second attempt at winning your case before a Tribunal. It is at the Upper Tribunal stage that natural justice and procedural fairness arguments become more important, as they are possible routes to getting the First-Tier Tribunal’s findings quashed and the matter reheard by a fresh First-Tier Tribunal.

      Any complaints of fraud should go to the police. Any other complaints should utilise the complaints procedures of the relevant body (DWP / Atos / professional governing body of any health or legal professional / Office of Judicial Complaints).

      Politicians cannot exert direct influence on the decision in individual cases – were this not so, it would breach the independence of the judiciary (including Tribunal panels) and quasi-judicial decision-makers (DWP / Atos) required by separation of powers and, ultimately, the rule of law. All a politician can do is attempt to ensure the decision-making process happens correctly, and call to account those responsible for any failures.

      If you are struggling to get a benefits application or a complaint dealt with correctly, it can be useful to involve your MP. Nevertheless, it remains that neither questions of whether the law should be changed nor consideration of political direction are relevant to a decision on an individual’s benefit entitlement.

  • Abby February 27, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Thank you for these letters, I can only show they to my gp but at least I’ll have tried.
    I like many, many other have a GP that has refused to sign any supporting evidence in my favour but I have also been told by my mental health team they won’t either so I have absoultly no way of getting evidence from a medical professional to back me up. They both agree I need the help and deserve it but won’t sign anything or help me. I really don’t know what burying their heads in the sand will do apart from kill their patients, do no harm indeed!

  • Peter March 14, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    Can anyone tell me how appeal hearings are interpreting the differing meanings of Regulations 29 and 35. My partner won her case at appeal last year being awarded ESA on 29 but not awarded 35 but the basis of that decision was not explained at the time or subsequently. As such she was placed in the WRAG group and we now have an appeal due to be heard in April as regards Regulation 35 and the Support group. On the face of it there seems to be limited difference between the ability to do work or work related activity – not that anything has been offered or suggested re “work related activity” in this regard. Rather it appears that there is reliance on the 12 month rule for WRAG on contributory ESA “running down the clock” so that whilst these people are agreed as not being fit for work – and so could not claim JSA – they are also not entitled to any benefit. DWP have been directed by the appeal to explain the basis of the differentiation prior to the hearing and I imagine they will say something along the lines that someone can be fit enough to do work related activity but not work itself.The assumption also seems to be that the condition of anyone in WRAG will- or should- automatically improve to the point that they will be capable of working .Has anyone been through an appeal where 29 for WRAG has already been granted but not 35 and how have the arguments been put and supported?

  • Patricia March 17, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    Peter did you get an answer to this, I was placed in WRAG under regulations 29 with no idea at time that I was on a time limited benefit afterwhich time I would have no money because my husband earns over £150 per week, I filled out GL24 stating that I was I wrong group, had I known I would have appealed, they said they believe WRAG is correct so I stay there and get no benefits. I sought some advice and have been told that if you won under these circumstances, your appeal will fail, you have 13 months to appeal a tier 2 appeal decision, and it’s taken so long to send me my papers back, I have now missed this, also, because I have not earned anything I am not entitled to JSA either as I only had a certain time to get that too and that ship has sailed, but they said I would only have got it for six months anyway its laughable, I don’t know what to do either and have been told my appeal will be throw out.

    • Peter March 18, 2013 at 2:02 pm

      Patricia – thanks- I was unaware of the time limit but as we had appealed within 12 months as such there has been no suggestion of being “out of time”- and the appeal is due to be heard next month.Strangely enough though the original appeal was decided in our favour on the basis of Regulation 29 applying the Decision Maker has now indicated they – ie the department – had not allowed it on those grounds though equally we do not know on what grounds they did accept it – all very confusing ? We have asked for further clarification prior to the appeal though as matters stand we are still unclear as to the interpretation and differentiation in practice of 29 and 35 and” harm” if not found capable of work or work related activity by either the DWP or the Appeal.

    • Margaret March 29, 2013 at 4:45 pm

      Hi Patricia
      The same thing has just happened to me. I was placed in the WRAG group and didn’t know it was only for 1 year. I’ve had no work related interviews in that time either, in fact no contact except to warn me that if I didn’t attend interviews I would suffer sanctions.
      I was told on 4 March that my ESA would stop the NEXT day!
      I have now downloaded the GP letters and I am about to write back to ask for a supersession of the decision. Like you I was told to apply for JSA but for 6 months only. But my GP has told them I will never work again.
      My situation has been complicated by the death of my mum on 10 March, so I know I am late in writing to them. The letter I got on 4/3/13 said I had to write by 6/3/13.

      I was going to give up. I have upped my medication in the hope that I could start going out alone and maybe get a job. All this has done is make me a zombie.

      So I’m going to give this one more try. I thought that in March 2012, after winning my appeal, that this ordeal was over. But it looks like they mean to humiliate me more.

  • Phil The Folk March 26, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    The letter from your GP invoking Regs 29 and 35 needs to be sent in with the ESA Assessment Form. Follow up with a Formal Complaint letter to Jobcenter Plus/DWP from your MP if possible. If you send the MP letter with the Form Atos will fast track you!
    It worked for my girlfriend, who was excused the medical and given 18 months before reassessment, and told to include another GP letter invoking regs 29 and 35 with the Form next time it’s sent out. The worry is, that the Gov’t may do away with these regs!

  • k davies April 10, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    I had my assessment aborted nurse not qualified enough to deal with my complex conditions complained to ATOS, got my M.P involved now ATOS wont communicate with me directly they wont reply to letters, e mails or phone calls. I have written to independent tribunal no response anyone tell me where to go now this has been going on since Oct.12

  • Richard Whitmore April 29, 2013 at 10:48 am

    It’s very good that some people may be finding remedy by using these regulations BUT … ultimately, if individual ATOS/DWP assesors cause provable harm, injury or loss (that can include harm from psychological distress) then … as long as nobody brings civil lawsuits against these people as a consequence of their inept, unqualified decisions … they will continue to issue these harmful decisions for as long as it is profitable for them to do so.

    That’s the bottom line. If only say 1 in a 1,000 of their victims brings and wins a lawsuit and they have to pay out say £50,000 … if they still made £50,000,000 then they’re not going to worry about the odd case that they lose.

    They haven’t attacked me and my lumbar stenosis yet, but when they do, we’re going to find out just how effective the law course I purchased from jurisdictionary actually is. If it works as expected then I’ll seriously have to think about trying to help few of their other victims on a no-win-no-fee type basis (which will go some way towards countering the outrageous removal of legal-aid by the current fascist corporate government).

    Good luck all. Keep your chin up and look into bringing as many lawsuits against these pigs as possible to make it financially unviable.


  • michael May 2, 2013 at 3:07 am

    I eventually got my appeal hearing at the local county court. My lass went with me and we were in front of a judge and a doctor for 1 hr and 20 mins. It was such a grilling I broke down in tears nd the judge said we would leave this now and they would write with their decision. I got turned down to go in support group and also to receive any esa at all. I am now to ill to work and not ill enough to get any money to live. Please can someone advise me what to do next. Nobody seems to care or be bothered to help me and we are desperate for some help just to live.

  • Biggles May 2, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    Ok, I can’t keep my gob shut any longer. I’m sick to death of seeing posts on Facebook about benefit scroungers. Do you know the figures? Because if you did you might see it in another light.

    Did you know that only 3% of the benefits budge…See more


    for the pie chart go to this link and you will be shocked how little fraud there is just another TABLOID BACKED MYTH

  • JudeB May 5, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    I took the advice as detailed in the above article, sent the appropriate letters etc to my GP, and having waited THREE WEEKS for a response, was told that she had had to seek advice from the Medical Council, who had told her that she was NOT to do anything further on my behalf, but to wait for a further request for information from the DWP!! The conversation I had with her left me feeling that EVERYONE was against me, and that I might as well KILL myself. However, with the support of a loving husband and family, I finally got to my Tribunal, and my appeal was UPHELD!!

  • Suzy May 13, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    I see the information regarding the two regulations have been amended during April 2013.

    My GP used the letters and I sent what he produced as part of my appeal which is still waiting to be heard.

    Do the amendments mean that the information I sent my GP is no longer applicable? Will the amendments mean I’ll have a lesser chance winning an appeal?

    • JJ May 15, 2013 at 8:45 am

      No – The legal principle stands. Don’t worry.

  • Kristen Jones June 3, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    This needs to be amended as the regulations have changed to include description that the person claiming the appeal couldn’t use adaptations or devices to help them in work. I cant remember the exact details as i read it a while back and well my short term memory is a mess. The adapted regulations have a new number (not 29 and 35) and i know that sending the wrong info could be used against any claim..they would find any excuse.

    • JJ June 3, 2013 at 2:28 pm

      29&35 still apply – please see link to main post : http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/11/16/important-how-to-gain-exemption-from-dwpatos-fit-for-work-wrag-decisions-by-applying-esa-regulations-29-and-35-see-note-for-25-and-31/

      Important Update 22nd May 2013

      Legal correction and clarification

      There are two sets of ESA regulations.

      1. Exceptional circumstances 25 and 31.

      These regulations are only in force under Universal Credit Income Related ESA claims (2013 No. 379):

      Citation, commencement and application

      (1) These Regulations may be cited as the Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2013.

      (2) They come into force on 29th April 2013.

      (3) They apply in relation to a particular case on any day on which section 33(1)(b) of the Welfare Reform Act 2012(1) (abolition of income-related employment and support allowance) is in force and applies in relation to that case.


      Here is the relevant clause from the Welfare Reform Act 33 Abolition of benefits:

      (1) The following benefits are abolished—

      (a) income-based jobseeker’s allowance under the Jobseekers Act 1995;

      (b) income-related employment and support allowance under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2007


      For Contributions Related ESA the old regulations 29 and 35 will remain in force indefinitely.

      The 2008 act has now been amended several times, but the exceptional circumstances regulations are still 29 and 35.


      List of amendments:


      Income Related ESA will move under the UC umbrella as Universal Credit is rolled out, and thus will when that happens, case by case, come under the 2013 no. 379 regulations.

      Therefore please now revert to quoting Regulations 29 (in place of 25) and 35 (in place of 31).

      The legal principle (the law as quoted in the regulations) remain identical so you should not be concerned if you have submitted the documents signed by your GP using the numbering 25 and 31. The Tribunal will apply the law irrespective of this error.

      We apologise for any confusion or inconvenience this may have caused.

      We have amended the numbering accordingly.

      ~ Black Triangle Campaign

      • Kristen Jones June 3, 2013 at 2:55 pm

        Hi, yes i read that about 10 minutes after i posted. I do apologise. Of course now i’m even more confused, having cognitive issues and brain fog all this legal jargon is doing my head in. I’m appealing the decision ive been given and looks like i will have to use the CAB again even though last time i mentioned these two clauses they advised me against trying for them! But from what i read here, they REALLY apply to me.

        • david green June 3, 2014 at 1:09 am

          this is beggars belief, if there is a way of helping certain people in certain situations, why would C.A.B. try and steer people away from regs 29 and 35…..
          it makes me wonder what sort of relationship atos/dwp has with them.
          its getting to a point where you don’t know who you can trust
          hope everything works out for you Kristen

  • Stepping Razor Sound Plate June 3, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    The ESA form [that makes 3 ESA Forms now] is a default form. The updated version [like the other 2] is a default `claim` form & a Bogus Data Protection Office at the DWP misusing & in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.

  • Stepping Razor Sound Plate June 3, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    Reason: The DWP want to cover their backs at appeals & not lose so many appeals. Another fiddle.

  • Ramboryan June 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    My son aged 28 was diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome when he was 9. Yes it took that long! He suffered unimaginable torture from his peers and teachers in school and complete misunderstanding from myself and his mum until we discovered the truth. Even then his torment did not abate as he endured daily bullying at secondary school. It was only after my vehement protests that some (Not all) teachers began to give him special attention. Unfortunately this provoked even more chastisement and downright nasty periods of bullying. I had to interpret his depression and melancholy for myself because he just would not tell me what was going on.
    When I finally discovered that he was being singled out for violent and unrelenting harassment I was livid and once again approached the school. This time they were more conciliatory and a special class was set up for kids with similar problems. Only then was it discovered how many children had problems such as Aspergers. Within just a few weeks 12 children were discovered to suffer from. When my son left at 16 a whole class was in operation.

    My son was statemented and we found him a place at college for teenagers with problems such as his and with varying degrees of mental issues.

    The college operated just as as school does with terms and holidays etc while giving the pupils various tasks to enable and help them cope with normal life.

    The college was 33 miles away and I visited at every opportunity and gave my son any support he required. Unfortunately sometimes even this was not enough. Quite often I would get a desperate call from the college to say that my son had disappeared and could I inform them if he turned up, as he invariably did, having walked the entire way.

    Once though I had to pick him up from Bromsgrove Police station because they had picked him on the M5 motorway walking the hard shoulder against the traffic. They could not comprehend that admonishing him would have little effect because of his condition.

    Walking home the whole 33 miles became a regular occurrence as he tried to get home for the comfort and understanding home could bring. One time I was desperately worried because I received the dread call from the college at around 9pm one evening. He had taken issue with someone and rather than argue had simply walked out. Unfortunately it was during a violent thunderstorm and he taken no coat.

    I drove the full 33 miles in the dark and driving rain to try and find him, to no avail.

    When we got home I sent my wife to bed and stayed close to the telephone until 5 in the morning when my dog growled. I went to the front door which was virtually ripped from my hands by the driving wind to find my son standing absolutely saturated.

    `Hello Dad’ he said trying gauge my reaction. I pulled him and got his clothes off. I fetched his pyjamas and sat him in from of the fire and made him a hot drink and sandwich. `Thanks Dad he said as he went off to bed. Then I cried!

    My son is as helpless today as he was then. He is 28 and I am now 72 suffering with Epilepsy, Osteo-Arthritis. and having had two heart attacks. His mum suffers with lifelong Diabetes for which she has three injections a day.

    My biggest fear is not my own death but what my son will do when I am gone? Doctors only discovered his Aspergers Syndrome when he was 7 and realized that there is no cure, and that he would require assistance throughout his life. Now politicians have decided that they will cast their net over the disabled and drag back the benefits they have previously given.

    When I wonder will these hard up politicians begin to ask for their money back?

    Believe me I am frightened not for me but for my son and the thousands of people like him caught up in what really is a witch hunt. It really bears a great resemblance to an Inquisition.
    Another problem is that my sons GP is just another doctor and has little experience with mentally ill people. Now even though he was statemented at the age of 16 and I am classed as his carer, officialdom and jobsworthys insist that my son give them permission in writing for me to approach them on his behalf. This makes the task harder because of the time element. Grrr!

  • Katharine Lovejoy June 6, 2013 at 8:50 am

    I went to my GP and showed her the forms quoting regs 29 and 35. She decided against filling in the form, but wrote her own version saying it would be detrimental to my health to be under threat of sanction as ill health would prevent me from attending work focussed interviews. Just under 11 weeks later, I got a letter to say the decision had been looked at again and revised in my favour. I am now in the support group. Was so worried I was going to end up in hospital for a while but my health has been more stable recently. Thanks so much for all your help everyone

  • kenny June 13, 2013 at 9:03 am

    I cannot face going to my assessment. I have bipolar depression..cant face it.
    i have to go @ 10 am today…..can you advise what to do.

    I’ physically sick and been up all night.


    Kenneth Bonnar ex RGN

    call 07757130289

  • Tony P June 22, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    i had to go for an assessment on 29th of last month where you have to sit infront of the so-called medical person, who does not know you from adam. i have a low blood clotting disorder ie: haemophilia 5%.and a degenerative spine disorder along with anxiety & stress. i recieved my decision a few days ago and guess what? no points at all were awarded. this has left me feeling crap. There has got to be something serious they are covering up. so i have been to the C.A.B & am going to my MP & the haemophilia society. keep you posted.

  • Ebrahim June 30, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    Firstly hello to all who are going through an ordeal after the post atos examination,
    I like many others who are sick and disabled and have been for a long time are left feeling guilty that we may be lazy ( according to atos,dwp and the general practitioners).
    The Tory Moto is “not what you can’t do but what you can do”. Of course we have just realised for the first time in human history the folly of our ignorance. What my motto is “don’t you think if we could do something we would have long ago”.
    But my strongest protest is with GP’s : like my own doctor who won’t hear reasonable argument and considers a plead as a form of begging with a cup in your hand.
    However I’m sure justice will be done because although the Tories and GP’s are in power and rule the helpless and weak they will never see .

  • Ebrahim July 2, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    R hello to all who are going through an ordeal after the post atos examination,
    I like many others who are sick and disabled and have been for a long time are left feeling guilty that we may be lazy ( according to atos,dwp and the general practitioners).
    The Tory Moto is “not what you can’t do but what you can do”. Of course we have just realised for the first time in human history the folly of our ignorance. What my motto is “don’t you think if we could do something we would have long ago”.
    But my strongest protest is with GP’s : like my own doctor who won’t hear reasonable argument and considers a plead as a form of begging with a cup in your hand.
    However I’m sure justice will be done because although the Tories and GP’s are in power and rule the helpless and weak they will never see .

  • stewart1000 July 14, 2013 at 11:23 am

    will keep this short. been thru atos once (11 years ago). they lied then,(3 pts.;trib 17 pts). 5 years back a note saying i wanted to bring my cpn got them to leave me be.
    got my esa50 y’day. thought of atos meeting pushing me into darker and darker areas.
    have heard if i get gp or cpn to write saying a face to face would be extr. dertimental to MH they may not push for a meeting. (true ??).
    is this same as letter re clauses 25 31 29 35?
    sorry i’m really confused.
    yrs stewart.

  • Donald King July 18, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    I tried to download your letters to GP & Atos about getting on the Support Group, but my computer can’t download them! I could easily copy them out myself, but I wonder if anyone else is having the same problem with downloading?

  • David W July 28, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    In [13]-[22] (paragraphs 13-22) of MN v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions [2013] UKUT 262 (AAC), the Upper Tribunal made some important observations about the procedure to be followed in making a Regulation 35(2) determination.

    Briefly, the Upper Tribunal held that it is for the Secretary of State to explain the “range or type of work-related activity which [the claimant] was capable of performing and might be expected to undertake sufficiently to assess the risk to health of [the claimant] or others”. Though this assessment may be generic in nature, a generic assessment will not apply to everyone.

    As an Upper Tribunal decision, this binds decision makers and the First-tier Tribunal when dealing with matters on the same facts, unless and until the decision is overruled by a future Upper Tribunal decision, the Court of Appeal or the Supreme Court, or is invalidated by a change in the law.

    A claimant – and any supporting evidence – should explain what work-related activity (or, for Regulation 29, work) they could do without a risk to health of themselves or another – which may be none. It’s worth knowing that the most common form of work-related activity is an interview at the JobCentre.

    The claimant and those providing supporting evidence should do their utmost to demonstrate that their submission is more likely to be right than any submission from the DWP that there’s no problem with work-related activity (or work). In the absence of any reasoned basis to prefer the claimant’s medical evidence, the decision maker or First-tier Tribunal is likely to believe the DWP’s medical evidence on the basis that the DWP doctor is specially trained to give information on benefits matters (cough, snort, splutter – but it is the argument used, so be prepared).

    The Upper Tribunal case can be downloaded from here (click).