UPDATED 9th May 2013
Leading doctors protest at ‘cruel’ disability assessments ~ Letter Posted on May 5, 2013
Two regulations ‘could hold the key to winning ESA appeals’ by John Pring Disability News Service:
UPDATE: IMPORTANT! ESA Regs 25 & 31 (as amended April 2013) : What must be done ~ Welfare maze is overwhelming GPs and failing patients who are left ‘in limbo’ Posted on February 9, 2013 :
Black Triangle is currently lobbying hard within the medical profession with the assistance of our comrades from the PCS and Unite Trade Unions. We are currently receiving mass support from individual doctors and consultants.
We are calling for for the BMA’s leadership to publicise our ESA Regulations 25 & 31 Campaign among all GPs in the United Kingdom and to give full effect to the BMA membership’s unanimous demand that the DWP-AtoS WCA end with immediate effect by their full adoption.
We will be making an announcement in the coming weeks. In the meantime, please continue to make use of these very efficacious regulations using these templates
BLACK TRIANGLE CAMPAIGN
Edinburgh, Friday 1st March 2013
We believe that, properly applied (we explain how is some detail), their use may save tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of sick and/or disabled people from untold suffering.
Everybody can play their part in this campaign by spreading the word as far and wide as possible. Please print out the draft letters and explanatory notes and submit them to your local medical centres/surgeries as well as any local advice and advocacy agencies.
You may even save lives.
Commenting on the recent case of Brian McArdle, 57, who died tragically just days after his Atos WCA the DWP issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to provide as much medical evidence as possible when they apply for ESA. Often, people found fit for work only provide the necessary evidence when they ask for a reconsideration or an appeal.”
From now on ~ Let there be no more excuses!
Let the DWP never be able to say again “we never knew – the necessary evidence was never provided”!
Please – in all cases – provide us with the feedback we need as to whether or not this has been appropriately applied by DWP Decision Makers to give the decision it was designed for. We are ready to pursue a legal case against them if they do not.
SOLIDARITY!
Black Triangle Campaign
Black Triangle Campaign
Explanatory Notes for Claimants and Advisers
ESA Regulations 25 and 31 ~ Exceptional circumstances
Important note from BTC: Please be mindful – possible confusion can arise between the terms having ‘limited capability for work’ as an exception/exemption (i.e. ‘Support Group) and ‘limited capability for work’ meaning being placed in the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG) in the legislation. We may revise our guidance based upon your feedback ~ we have endeavoured to explain the legislation and its interpretation in as clear a manner as possible. All feedback warmly welcomed. Thanks.
Regulation 25
25.—(1) A claimant who does not have limited capability for work as determined in accordance with the limited capability for work assessment is to be treated as having limited capability for work if paragraph (2) applies to the claimant.
(2) This paragraph applies if—
(a)
the claimant is suffering from a life threatening disease in relation to which—
(i)
there is medical evidence that the disease is uncontrollable, or uncontrolled, by a recognised therapeutic procedure; and
(ii)
in the case of a disease that is uncontrolled, there is a reasonable cause for it not to be controlled by a recognised therapeutic procedure;
or
(b)
the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and, by reasons of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/379/regulation/25/made
___________________________________________________________________
Regulation 31 – Certain claimants to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity (WRAG)
31.—(1) A claimant is to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity if—
(a)
the claimant is terminally ill;
(b)
the claimant is—
(i)
receiving treatment by way of intravenous, intraperitoneal or intrathecal chemotherapy; or
(ii)
recovering from that treatment and the Secretary of State is satisfied that the claimant should be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity; or
(c)
in the case of a woman, she is pregnant and there is a serious risk of damage to her health or to the health of her unborn child if she does not refrain from work-related activity.
OR
(2) A claimant who does not have limited capability for work-related activity as determined in accordance with regulation 34(1) is to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity if—
(a)
the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement; and
(b)
by reasons of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/379/regulation/31/made
Legal advice – Statutory Interpretation of the Regulations
The Black Triangle Campaign has consulted with Senior Counsel regarding the statutory interpretation of these regulations.
“Substantial” or “Serious”
Regulation 25 (2) (b) and Regulation 31 (2) (a) & (b)
These terms both apply to the word ‘risk’ and not to a patient’s ‘disease’ or ‘disablement’ (illness(es) or imparment(s). )
Therefore, the question before the General Practitioner is:
“If, as a result of the DWP/Atos Work Capability Assessment, your patient was found either ‘fit for work’ or to have possessed ‘limited capability for work’ (and placed in the Work-Related Activity Group) is it more likely than not that harm would result?”
Counsel has advised the exemptions must be applied to all cases where harm is likely .
Counsel further explained that, as the first duty of any doctor is to “do no harm”; in relation to any question regarding whether or not the ‘harm’ caused would be sufficiently ‘serious’:
- all that is required of the doctor is to make a simple clinical judgment as to whether or not ANY harm or deterioration to the patient’s condition would occur as a result of being found fit for work or placed in the WRAG.
To recap:
Any harm is itself sufficiently ‘serious’ or ‘substantial’ to warrant applying Regulations 25 or 31 in the correct statutory interpretation of this law because both words apply only to the word “risk“
With regard to the degree of harm it need only be “more likely than not” that harm to the patient would result from being found either ‘fit for work’ or having ‘limited capability for work’.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/regulation/35/made
Explanatory Notes for Claimants
These draft letters are intended as a guide for the ‘exceptional circumstances’ regulations 25 and 31.
If you are in the process of applying for Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) you can submit the letter ‘ESA Assessment Letter for Claimants’ with your ESA50 form or hand it to the assessor at the work capability assessment itself (keep a copy of the letter you submit for your records).
Additionally, if you have been summoned by DWP/Atos to attend a Work Capability Assessment (WCA) or Reassessment; or you are in the process of appealing against an ESA decision finding you ‘fit for work’ or having ‘limited capability for work’ placing you in the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG) you should arrange an appointment with your GP and supply them with a copy of the “ESA letter for GP “ along with a copy of the “Cover letter for GP”.
Before your GP appointment you should write down the ways in which your physical or mental health, or that of other people, may be harmed if you are not awarded the benefit.
The question to be answered is simply:
“Would it be more likely than not that your physical or mental health (‘disease’ or ‘disablements’ in the words of the Regulation i.e. illnesses or physical and/or mental impairments) would be harmed if you were found either ‘fit for work’ or with ‘limited capability for work’ “.
“In what ways would your condition be exacerbated as the result of an adverse DWP/Atos WCA decision?”
It is entirely at the discretion of your GP whether he/she feels that such a letter is appropriate and warranted.
However, if they do support your view that Regulations 25 and/or 31 apply then we believe that these letters stating that fact will likely be very helpful indeed.
__________________________________________________________________
ESA letter for claimant to be submitted with ESA50 form or presented to the DWP/Atos WCA Assessor
To whom it may concern
Following this Work Capability Assessment I may be found
fit for work
or
placed in the WRAG (work related activity group)
In my opinion this will be contradiction of my own General Medical Practitioner’s knowledge of me over time, clinical assessment and medical certification.
My General Medical Practitioner is the custodian of my primary medical record which has been accumulated during my lifetime in the UK
My Past Medical History and current problems include:
1
2
3
4
5
I am of the opinion that exceptional circumstances Regulation 25 may apply:
‘Because of your physical or mental health condition or disability, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person, including you, if you were found not to have limited capability for work.’
Or with regard to the WRAG group decision that regulation 31 may apply:
‘Because of your physical or mental health condition or disability there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person, including you, if you were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity.’
I am of the opinion that substantial risk exists because:
Yours sincerely
(Patient’s name)
___________________________________________________________________
ESA Appeal Letter to be completed by the Patient’s GP for submission to the DWP AND the Tribunals Service
To whom it may concern
I am this patient’s General Medical Practitioner and the custodian of the primary medical records they have accumulated during their lifetime in the UK.
Following a recent Work Capability Assessment this patient, in contradiction of my own knowledge of the patient over time, clinical assessment and medical certification was found:
fit for work
or
was deemed to have limited capability for work and was placed in the WRAG (Work Related Activity Group)
The patient’s Past Medical History and current problems include:
1
2
3
4
5
Although this person has been deemed “fit for work” I am of the opinion that exceptional circumstances Regulation 25 applies:
‘Because of your physical or mental health condition or disability, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person, including you, if you were found not to have limited capability for work.’
Or
With regard to the limited capability for work (WRAG Group decision) that regulation 31 applies:
‘Because of your physical or mental health condition or disability there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person, including you, if you were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity.’
I am of this opinion because:
I disagree with the outcome of your assessment and support my patient in their appeal against your decision.
Yours sincerely
___________________________________________________________________
Cover Letter and Explanatory Notes for the Patient’s GP
Dear Doctor
Your patient:
Is applying for Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) and has been asked to submit evidence with their ESA50 Form
or
has been summoned for another reassessment of their capability for work
or
is in the process of appealing a recent DWP/Atos Work Capability Assessment (WCA) decision that they are ‘fit for work’
or
is in the process of appealing a recent DWP/Atos WCA decision that they have limited capability for work to be placed in the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG)
As a GP you may be at times inundated with requests for letters to support appeals.
This is a draft letter which you could amend in order to promptly assist your patient who is requesting supportive information for the purposes of a Tribunal Appeal for Employment Support Allowance (ESA).
The BMA Annual Representative Meeting in June passed a motion demanding that the WCA ‘end with immediate effect to be replaced by a rigorous and safe system that does not cause avoidable harm to some of the weakest and most vulnerable members of our society’ thereby making this BMA national policy.
The WCA involves the administration of a battery of questions contained in the ‘Logic Integrated Medical Assessment’ (LIMA) computer programme that comprehensively fails to adequately and accurately assess a patient’s ‘fitness for work’.
The operation of the assessment system has also been universally condemned for failing to take into account the disproportionate medical, social and other barriers that sick and disabled people face in the job market as a direct result of their disabilities.
The recent GMC publication of Good Medical Practice 2012 states clearly that a Doctor must (overriding duty or principle):
“take prompt action if you think that patient safety is or may be seriously compromised by inadequate premises, equipment or other resources, policies or systems.”
This draft letter attempts to address some of the abject failings of the WCA by invoking ‘exceptional circumstances’ Regulations 29 and 35 to be applied where a decision adverse to your patient may pose a ‘substantial risk’ to his/her physical and/or mental health and well-being. We have included legal advice from Senior Counsel which sets out clearly the manner in which these exemptions Regulation 25 (2) (b) and Regulation 31 (2) (a) & (b) are to be properly interpreted.
We wish to appeal to you make these regulations and their lawful application known to your colleagues, both within your practise and beyond.
Explanatory notes for General Practitoners
ESA Regulations 25 and 31 ~ Exceptional Circumstances
Regulation 25 (if found ‘fit for work’)
25.—(1) A claimant who does not have limited capability for work as determined in accordance with the limited capability for work assessment is to be treated as having limited capability for work if paragraph (2) applies to the claimant.
(2) This paragraph applies if—
(a)
the claimant is suffering from a life threatening disease in relation to which—
(i)
there is medical evidence that the disease is uncontrollable, or uncontrolled, by a recognised therapeutic procedure; and
(ii)
in the case of a disease that is uncontrolled, there is a reasonable cause for it not to be controlled by a recognised therapeutic procedure;
or
(b)
the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and, by reasons of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/379/regulation/25/made
Regulation 31 – Claimants to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity (WRAG)
31.—(1) A claimant is to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity if—
(a)
the claimant is terminally ill;
(b)
the claimant is—
(i)
receiving treatment by way of intravenous, intraperitoneal or intrathecal chemotherapy; or
(ii)
recovering from that treatment and the Secretary of State is satisfied that the claimant should be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity; or
(c)
in the case of a woman, she is pregnant and there is a serious risk of damage to her health or to the health of her unborn child if she does not refrain from work-related activity.
OR
(2) A claimant who does not have limited capability for work-related activity as determined in accordance with regulation 34(1) is to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity if—
(a)
the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement; and
(b)
by reasons of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/379/regulation/31/made
Legal advice – interpretation of the regulations
The Black Triangle Campaign has consulted with Senior Counsel regarding the statutory interpretation of these regulations.
“Substantial” or “Serious” Risk
Regulation 25 (2) (b) and Regulation 31 (2) (a) & (b)
These terms both apply to the word ‘risk’ and not to a patient’s ‘disease’ or ‘disablement’ (illness(es) or imparment(s). )
Therefore, the question before the General Practitioner is:
“If, as a result of the DWP/Atos Work Capability Assessment, your patient was found either ‘fit for work’ or to possess ‘limited capability for work’ (and placed in the Work-Related Activity Group) is it more likely than not that harm would result?”
Counsel has advised the exemptions must be applied to all cases where harm is likely .
Counsel further explained that, as the first duty of any doctor is to “do no harm”, in relation to any question regarding whether or not the ‘harm’ caused would be sufficiently ‘serious’ – all that is required of the doctor is to make a simple clinical judgment as to whether or not harm would occur.
To recap:
Any harm is itself sufficiently ‘serious’ or ‘substantial’ to warrant applying Regulations 25 or 31 in the correct statutory interpretation of this law because both words apply only to the word ‘risk’ and not to ‘harm’.
With regard to the degree of harm it need only be “more likely than not” that harm to the patient would result from being found either ‘fit for work’ or having ‘limited capability for work’ (WRAG).
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/379/regulation/31/made
i have been taken off esa but wen i got put on incapasity benefit it was 1989 i was 19 i have only just come off it and they won,t put me bck on i have ostio arthritis i have underactive thyroid i have asthma i also have claw foot which is very painful i also have servere chronic deppression and my deppression is getting worse evry day as they have just dived in there an put me under a lot of pressure to do this now they have a new scheme out that u have to go college for a course of english and maths and if u donnot attend u will lose your rite to claim benefits for 3 weeks so u tell me wot i would live on for 3 weeks and its winter so i have no heating no food and no electric
Print out and take the material to your doctor.
please sign and share to scrap the welfare Reform act http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/36263
I have already had my ESA payments stopped and am on credits only ESA. I now have to find a job as cannot afford not to. However, both my mental and physical conditions are now deteriorating. Not one of my medical professionals feels I am capable of work, nor does my job centre advisor or employability program advisor think that they will be able to find me work, but have to go through the process anyway. Is any of this retroactive?
YES! It is retroactive. Ask your doctor(s) to write a letter stating that the regulation(s) apply. Just print out the lot and take it to them. Let us know how you get on. Good luck & STAY IN TOUCH! X
Please share and sign epetition to scrap the Welfare Reform Act http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/36263
Toni, you are either expected to do as you have been told, or to beg and scrounge from your family and friends.
Or you could just die.
Either way, Iain Duncan Smith won’t care once he’s been absolved in exchange for a recital of the Rosary and perhaps the Lord’s Prayer.
I wish you success with your appeal.
What I’d really like to have, to take around doctor’s surgeries, librairies etc – is an eye catching leaflet which summarises the information and gives links to these documents. Printed out whole, they’re very long and wordy and people probably won’t realise what they are.
Thanks, Helen. We will try to work on your suggestion X
Thanks JJ. In the meantime, I’m preparing my own A5 leaflet to take around my locality, and I made a tinyURL for this page – it’s http://tinyurl.com/gain-exemption
So that people can check here when they take the leaflet home! (The existing URL is way too long to type into the address bar…)
It would also be great if the information on this page could be organised better – sorry to quibble – but at the moment it’s a torrent of information. Ideally a link to a separate page for each document, as both .doc and pdf…
Don’t ask much, do I?
No – you’re right. Just that I thought this was too important to sit on until it was ‘perfect to go’. We’ll be doing as you suggest over the coming week.
I’m not very IT/Design/DTP savvy! Will attempt to get this done over the coming week.
By the way, I have sorted the stream of information into three separate documents and re-formatted them a bit – if you would like me to email those to you to save you doing the same all over again, just let me know where to email them.
YES PLEASE Helen!
Please send them to blacktrianglecampaign@hotmail.com
I would be very grateful if you could email me these documents. Many thanks
.sorry I didnt put my email address on. This is ribbons01@hotmail.com
Yes please Helen could I have copies at steve.orchard@taltalk.net
sorry, i typed out my email wrongly. It’s steve.orchard@talktalk.net so sorry Helen.
helen i would be so greatfull if you could e mail me the link?
Hi Helen
, If you have the time , would you be kind enough to e mail me this information to, as my my wife has chronic fybromyalgia and recently had a stroke and is being called up before ATOS which is causing her a lot of stress at the moment,this would be greatly appreciated and give us a fighting chance. johnabalmer@hotmail.co.uk
can you send to me please Helen
We’d be extremely grateful for a copy too please Helen.
Many thanks,
Eco
DPAC Norfolk
Please could you e-mail them to me as I Have just stumbled on to this site and am also appealing (but they place me in the wrag without even seeing me( and i also on dla (middle care and high rate mobility))) My e-mail is james.davies333@ntlworld.com
Hi Helen, would you be able to email the documents to me please? I am now being put forward for a tribunal after waiting 6 months for an appeal. My doctor gives me “fit lines” for 6 months at a time! Thanks
Helen, I too would be very grateful if you would email me your interpritation … dpadgett@talktalk.net many thanks in advance..
Could you email them to me as please: beebs35@gmail.com, many thanks.
Hi Helen,
Could you please send me the three documents if you wouldn’t mind?
many thanks.
Baz.
I would apprieciate a copy of these documents as I am in the middle of a ESA appeal only just found this site.
Download them – click on the links Marina
please can u send me the documents to ilovemypets@outlook.com
Hi Helen, if you could find time would you please e-mail me da 3 seperate documents .
It would help my cause substantially, many thanks . Nigel
Hi Helen. I have only just stumbled on to this brilliant site. I was put into wrag after changing from IB to ESA didnt have face to face and I am appealing decision as I should be in support. would it be possible if you could email me the 3 documents please. My stress level already through the roof as have been unsure what I needed to do or send in. Really pleased I found Black Triangle by chance as it has been a brilliant help to read of other peoples experiences. Thanks
please could i have copies if possible, many thanks, ken.
can u plze send me copy as i am apealing a decision helen .tanks
Can you email me the details please
helen please would email them to me please
Hi Helen,
yes please email me the 3 pages you have constructed. As i am going through an esa appeal and need all the help i can get. As it is so confusing.
Keep up the good work.
please could you email this to me as well Helen,much appreciated as they put me in WRAG
Important that People should Not Suffer Un Necessarily
Is there a version of this I can print that doesn’t have all that guff on the side?
Hi Patrick, I copied and pasted and the guff on the side magically didn’t appear.
Just wanted to add that my sister had a WRAG verdict overturned and was put in the Support Group on the basis on Section 35. We didn’t know anything about it and weren’t given any advice to appeal on that basis at the CAB (though CAB were very helpful); but to be honest we were not very hopeful about the appeal because her condition does not fit easily into the mobility catagories. Fortunately, the judge and doctor on the appeal decided that Section 35 did apply to her. Perhaps it would be useful to make sure that all CAB offices know about this route.
Yes, Jen! We’re working on it as fast as we can. All hands on deck
X
I’ll drop the info into Durham and Bishop Auckland
Hi Jen,
Was the successful overturn to Support group a result of the template letter of reg 35 as mentioned in this post?
Kind Regards,
Andrew.
Nice to see that other peeps are addressing the Legal issues contained within the WRA. There are other issues as well concerning the Data Protection Act (ICO considers ATOS healthcare to be a Data Controller) and the Right of Supersession. Social Security Act 1998 (DWP decision makers in the IBR team are not trained in this or the Social Security Administrations Act 1992, which are in fact the underlying legal support for the WRA)
In respect of the Right of Supersession, this means that existing claims cannot be legally ammended or terminated as their is nobody qualified on behalf of the Secretary of State to do this.
Hi Gen,
I was just thinking, would this then apply to those on DLA whom would be reassessed from autumn 2013 for Personal Independent Payment?
Thanks
We don’t know yet. We’ve been on the case on that question for sometime now, so don’t worry. We’ll definitely keep everybody informed.
oh we are going to have to start using this….as Helen has pointed out,we need to summaries the information a touch just to simplify the the letter use.
bring it on
re: the DWP issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to provide as much medical evidence as possible when they apply for ESA. Often, people found fit for work only provide the necessary evidence when they ask for a reconsideration or an appeal.”
The DWP HAVE BEEN GIVEN EVIDENCE from people and especially GP’s after ATOS fail them on the WCA.
The DWP already have EVIDENCE they only need new evidence from new claimants, not those already on benefit
At the so called assessment the Atos personnel use the evidence AGAINST you by asking how you get to specialist or consultant doctor appointments etc. If you say you drive or can get a bus that is used as evidence against you and you are declared fit to drive or fit to sit, travel or walk etc. No matter what your illness is or how severe it is.
So it is a bit rich and facile of them to make this statement now. If they were serious, then it is time they experienced for themselves at first hand an Atos interrogation.
How anyone can take this assessment seriously is laughable, created by college professors who should have the intelligence to know better – complete pyscho babble and nothing more.
But this is all just the usual fluff, pass the buck, blame someone else. The ill or disabled should not have to prove they are ill. If the authorities believe a fraud is being committed then it is up to them to prove it.
Certain diseases and illness have no cure, all that is available is pain relief and management, they know this but still subject patients to this inhumane test.
They already have all the evidence they need from Incapacity Benefit & DLA forms etc.
They have stated that they have the final decision over people’s benefit claims. Atos say they make the reports but the final decision is the DWP adjudicator. So DWP you cannot have it both ways. Do you really think someone with a chronic illness is suddenly going to become cured because a disability DENIAL analyst says they are?
On a more positive note I would like to take this opportunity to praise and thank the efforts of all the wonderful staff and contributors to this site. You are all such a source of inspiration and have given people so much hope.
Thank you.
Thank you for your kind comments, Jay. We agree with you but we’re not letting them off the hook!
This is an Important Matter Important that there is Social Justice and that Human
Rights are Upheld Namely Not to Suffer due to Poverty and Collapse of Health
I supplied all my medical evidence before my medical – when i arrived the nurse pushed them to one side and didnt even bother to look at them( this contained all my physio,spinal consultant ,pain management letters for the past 5 years) – i received zero points again – the report i got back especially about my mobilty does not reflect, what I recall during the medical – whats the point of suppling medical evidence when they ignore it ?
According to the WCA Handbook they *have* to look at the evidence and take it into account. If they have not you can request that this be marked on the assessment – they cannot refuse to do so and you have a right to bring this up with senior staff and with the DWP assessor. Not much help in regard to the zero points but this can help you at appeal.
I’ve requested mine be recorded and am taking someone in with me to take notes – you can do this and they can ask to make a copy, but they can’t stop you from having notes taken. They *should* (if they are doing their job properly) advise you that you can take notes but that if you choose to publish it you have to omit their name.
thats the same as what happened to me I have letters from consultants going back 15 years when my back injury started but didn’t want to know I felt like I got 0 points as soon as I entered the room. She wouldn’t listen when I tried to explain and then when I got the letter telling me I go no points I found she had lied about certain things. The whole thing is a disgusting shambles I now have had no money since 5th January when my incapacity benefit was stopped.
Everyone must share and bookmark this.
Doubtless it can be improved but that’s it so far.
Oops, I think this message got lost, it was meant to be after the leaflet text I posted further up the thread…
… which presumably broke the rules of the board… oops, sorry!
JJ
You are very welcome, no one should let them off the hook, this site has made such a difference already.
I’ve enlightened everyone I know as to what is going on and point them to this site, even my hospital consultant whose shocked look of disbelief I will not forget when I told him they had failed me on my WCA and stated I was fit for work.
Whether you are sick, disabled, unemployed or in low paid employment we all stand together and must not be split into opposing factions by their propoganda.
The struggle is never over, only last week we honoured those who fought and fell in two world wars.
To give up would be to dishonour their valiant and heroic sacrifices
They fought for peace and freedom. A freedom that was gained for EVERYONE not just the moneyed elite.
Britain does not need a dictatorship for the poor (in health or finance)
We will not tolerate it.
Hear! Hear!! Jay!!!
An MP recently posted on Twitter that on a recent visit to her surgery there was a notice up saying GPs would no longer be writing letters to the DWP/ATOS for claimants. This was up in Scotland. No doubt a direct result of the massive number of people failing their ATOS assessments. If this is the case across the board, it’s likely that claimants will still be fighting these assessments and tribunals on their own, without the help of the people who know them to be unfit for work. Perhaps an inquiry to and a statement from the GMC would be useful, as otherwise everyone will be back at square 1.
Please let me know which GP surgery this was, I would like to look into this further
Stephen
my GPs sick to his back teeth of ATOS and don’t get me started on ATOS, my husband’s consultant knows, I KNOW, MY GP KNOWS, EVERYONE THAT KNOWS HIM KNOWS there’s nothing that can be done for his legs, he was told that back in the early 1990s, the only option given to him was amputation. NOW HE HAS TO WASTE TAXPAYERS MONEY GOING TO SEE DOCTORS’ AND CONSULTANTS’ BECAUSE HE HAS “JUMP THROUGH HOOPS” TO APPEASE THE DWP AND ATOS. It really gets my goat seeing what my husband’s going through!!! Please does anyone know if anything’s going to be done about this ATOS/DWP torture soon? How many have to die? Why aren’t human rights lawyers helping us? or does it only apply to terrorists’? I’m sorry to rant I’m on my last nerve and going into meltdown with stress!!!
To clarify, I have been using these exceptional circumstances regulations for some time now in my capacity of Appeals Officer for a charitable organisation. They are not as simple to apply as we might hope and are hardly ever applied until a case reaches a Tribunal. The reasons are wide and varied but usually come down to statements attributed to claimants at the assessment. For example, a claimant might say they travelled to the assessment by car and that they drove themselves. This statement is interpreted as showing an ability to sit for the time period of the journey, use both gross and finer motor skills, have adequate concentration and awareness, not be at risk of dizzy spell/fits/fainting episodes, being able to complete personal actions and multiple tasks….the list goes on. Therefore, trying to argue for example that someone should be treated as if they have a limited capability for work because of a risk of fainting/fits, or because a back or spinal problem would worsen simply won’t hold water for many.
The second issue I would point out is the DWP “decision-makers” stating they need the evidence at the time of the assessment. This again, is simply untrue and will categorically be ignored by Atos assessors and dismissed by DM’s with a standard statement such as, “The claimant has provided evidence from their GP however, the Atos HCP report is preferred because of the clinical findings.”
Hell, I’ve even received a decision notice from DWP where the DM actually has the arrogance to state, “The Health Care Professional is an expert in the assessment of disability as well the claimants medical condition. He is therefore better placed than both the GP and Consultant to assess the claimant’s ability to work.” It beggars belief!
My advice to all is as follows: get the assessment recorded, take a friend or relative with you, immediately dispute statements incorrectly attributed to you or taken out of context, in writing to both DWP as part of an appeal letter and separately to ATOS in the form of a written complaint, secure as much evidence as possible from your GP and Consultants to assist your appeal (which is where most decisions are changed) and opt to attend a Tribunal hearing.
For those now time-limited and in receipt of credits only, you can still appeal against the decision to place you in the WRAG if your last decision was less than 13 months ago. You will need to show good cause as to why your appeal is late but I feel retrospective legislation is good enough cause in itself, unless you had a crystal ball at the time and could therefore appreciate the consequences of doing nothing of course! in addition, if you can show your condition has deteriorated since the date of the last decision, you can request a further assessment on the grounds of your deterioration.
Hope this helps some in their appeals and hope it at least helps others to know you are not alone in this, there are many like me fighting for your rights too.
Thanks for your input! Forewarned is forearmed! Solidarity!
Is it the case that as a driver in receipt of Incapacity Benefit and undergoing migration to ESA I stand a big chance of being found fit for work ? When this hasd come up at appeals in your job have the tribunal taken great heed of driving. In my case I have OCD and severe anxiety but how the hell else can I travel being as I cant cope alone on public transport and can’t always have someone available to come to the GP etc., I’m so horrified at the idea that my driving could ‘do for me’ I’d think about surrendering my licence pronto ! I see that the DVLA medical disclosure form doesnt even enquire about concentration , it asks about meds and memory
I’d be pleased to hear how the driving angle goes at appeals ? I’m horrified but I still have time to give up driving before migration is complete
Thought you would like to know that I have already won my appeal at the Reconsideration stage by applying Regs 29 and 35. I had been awarded WRAG but appealed to be in the Support Group using the Regs as I felt I had a reasonable case. I supplied plenty of medical evidence including a letter from my GP that stated that my condition might worsen by either work or work related activity.I wrote a letter to the Decision Maker pointing this out, with some extra bits of evidence. I give advice to people on an ME/CFS forum and advise people to use the Regs if they can too.
Hi Elaine (I wonder if you could help me with advice in any way and/or point me in the direction of the ME/CFS forum you help with? I have ME Fibro Depression and severe Anxiety and have just had a letter today telling me to attend a ‘medical’ with atos on the 20th. I am already not coping with the stress they are putting me through and I don’t think I can cope with attending. I’d rather die. I’m struggling with my thoughts and anxiety even today as a result of the letter. (They just stopped my contributions based esa a fortnight ago without prior warning and left me wondering for a fortnight if I would be destitute but have now given me income based and although £9 per week less than before I was so relieved yesterday when I received the letter and now today I get the letter about the medical) My GP has already provided a letter with my ESA renewal form (which I was helped with by a welfare ben worker) stating that he thinks my mental and physical health will be worsened by being forced to attend any medicals /interviews but seems like they don’t care. The welfare ben worker was sure I met the requirements of several markers when we filled the form in and didn’t think I’d be forced to a medical. I was intitially (over a year ago) migrated over from Incapacity and placed in the ESA WRAG group without having been seen. I am so confused and exhausted with all this I feel hopeless. I’d appreciate any advice you or anyone here could give me …
thanks so much
Hi, I also suffer with fibro,chronic coccydnia amonsgst sooo many more health conditions, and have little help and support frm anyone to protect me and my daughter frm the contant torture of atos etc…
can u email me these templates please x
Please share and sign epetition to scrap the Welfare Reform Act
Did you know there is an online petition to scrap the Welfare Reform Act http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/36263
Okay, Atos, as expected, have cut me off, so what do I do now? I was struggling to live with no money or quality of life before they awarded me only 6 points and took away my ESA today. I had two rare lung disease (Legionnaires [nearly died] and Acute Pulminary Histoplasmosis [was bedbound for a year]) I now have PVFS and am in constant pain and am really weak, I am unable to move atall maybe 1 in 4 days… I wont be able to work as much as I need the money how can I hold down a job when I’m sick. what do I do. Wasn’t able to afford any christmas presents again this year, wont be able to live at all now?
I’ve been linked to this site but I find reading hard and need someone to help me with this.
Please someone help me.
Dom
Thank you for the info. However I still find all this very confusing. My brain doesn’t work as it did and I have little support to help with the huge amount of paperwork etc that I am confronted with by the various benefit departments. I receive middle care DLA, which is reviewed every 3 years, however I have been placed in WRAG for ESA and that is reassessed annually. My condition is for life and will not change, although no one seems to be able to grasp that – even a change to 5 yearly assessments for both DLA and ESA would be wonderful. The constant form filling and jumping through hoops stresses and depresses me; it makes my condition worse. I live in constant fear that I could have my benefits taken away at any moment. What I really don’t understand is if I have been deemed to required care during the day by one benefit department, how am I supposed to have ‘limited capabilities for work’ from another, what do I do – take my carer with me to work?? (This being a technical comment/question as obviously the amount of DLA paid would never pay for full time day care anyway, I can only actually afford 4 hours a week!). None of it makes any sense whatsoever. I have another appointment at JC+ on 5th December to ‘discuss the support available to [me] through JC+’ – a statement that is rubbish to begin with; there is no support available at JC+!! JC+ is 6 miles away and there are no buses, so I have to go through the nightmare of trying to find someone to take me there and then wait up to an hour. I am sick and tired (literally) of this harassment, but can’t see a way out. I, like so many, do not have the energy to fight. Now feeling even more like crap about the whole situation, going to curl up in a ball in the corner and cry for a bit
An excellent way of showing the nonsense of the situation in your circumstances is to request all the evidence used on your DLA claim then use it to show your problems in your ESA Appeal. Think about the reasons you were awarded Middle Rate care (MRC) was it because you need continual supervision or because you need personal care? Think of the ways in which you require this care and the reasons you can’t do it yourself, do you need help to wash, bathe, prepare a meal? Is this due to a problem with manual dexterity? If so, you can score points on your ESA claim under descriptor 5. If its because of problems with your spine, which part, upper or lower limbs affected? If upper, you may score points on your ESA claim under descriptors 3 and 4, if lower limbs, then descriptors 1 and 2.
In your case, you have already been placed in the WRAG so you need to concentrate your efforts on the support group criteria, which is notoriously difficult to satisfy unless you scored 15 points on 1 descriptor alone to be placed in the WRAG. Therefore I would agree that the best way for you to be placed in the support group is by arguing under Regulation 35 that there is a substantial risk to yourself (by virtue of a deterioration in both your mental and physical health) if you were found not to have a limited capability for work-related activity.
For everyone: I know that many GP’s are not aware of what work-related activity actually means. It is absolutely imperative you let them know it means if you fail to turn up tp an appointment your benefit could be sanctioned, that if an adviser deems it appropriate, you could be forced to take part in group therapies, attend physiotherapy, engage with a “voluntary” work placement etc.
In terms of reassessments, You need to ask your GP or Consultant to state how long he envisages your condition will cause the same problems. Don’t forget that decision-makers are not medically trained and will often take the view that even lifelong conditions may improve to such an extent that daily life can now be maintained with appropriate treatment.
Finally, it’s not all bad news, at least a tiny step in the right direction is slowly filtering through. Tribunals are now stating how long the DWP should wait before reassessing a claimant. In agreement with DWP decision-makers, they are able to state a reassessment period of up to 3 years and DWP will abide by that finding.
I was put into support group in July…19 weeks later i’ve got another ESA50 to fill in…because we assess every 6 months was the reply, i give up, i’m ready to give in, what the hell can we do to stop the repeated assessments. Oh you’re not fit for work….19 weeks later we’lll have another bite at the cherry and see if we can chamge our mind
Please see your doctor and get them to make a declaration that Regulations 29 and/or 35 apply to you and send it back to the DWP with your ESA50 form. Keep us informed of your progress. Hopefully they will write back and grant you exemption! If not, they’ll have us to answer to!
So many of the comments above could have been me: giving up, giving in, harassed, stressed, etc. This has to stop. All my hope is being drained and I can see there are so many others in the same situation. This has to stop – now. It is utterly inhumane.
Sorry, I forgot the most important thing, which is something I’ve wanted to say for a long time> Thank you to all at Black Triangle. You are incredible and perhaps we will all win through eventually.
Thanks Fran!!! SOLIDARITY FOREVER! XXX We will survive, we will beat them!
Thanks so much XXX
Hi. I did not receive my ESA 50 sent to me. Had money stopped then they reinstated it and sent me another ESA 50. I only had 2 weeks to complete it and didn’t know about getting your own medical evidence. I wouldn’t of been able too either because have been bed bound for 12 weeks. I not see my doctor when I am this ill as I can’t get to doctors.
Could someone please send me the letters I need to take to my medical please. And the one for the doctor.
Many thanks. These forms are making me more ill than I am!
Hi Lynn
Have you checked on sister site of Black Triangle: dwp examination forum. In my view the best site, as it has REAL PEOPLE going through similar situations. You can chat to people and, hopefully, very soon, get well =informed information on how to resolve your situation. Post here again and ask if, for any reason, you cannot get on the site.
My girlfriend did not know about 29 and 35 when she had her WCA. She got 0 points when she should have received 36 points. Yesterday on Radio 4 I heard the Government claiming that the reason for all the successful appeals was that claimants were supplying extra medical evidence. Well, most appellants have to wait many months for their appeal, during which time their condition is likely to worsen, particularly if their benefits have been cut. My girlfriend found that Atos/DWP refused to accept her GP’s comments. When she received notice of her WCA she informed them that she was awaiting results of a Neurological test, AND that she had an MRI Scan booked for just a few days after the date of her WCA. It would have been VERY SENSIBLE for Atos/DWP to postpone her WCA until the Neuro and MRI reports had been received, but Atos/DWP refused and said that they would make not difference. The Government DOES NOT WANT TO CONSIDER MEDICAL EVIDENCE, AND IS CLEARLY IRRITATED WHEN PEOPLE DO SUPPLY EXTRA EVIDENCE. The Government claim that appellants are supplying extra evidence at appeal, but how many of these, like my girlfriend, DID try to supply evidence to Atos/DWP, but the inhumane Vogons REFUSED to accept it or postpone a WCA until the evidence had been provided? The Government STILL maintains that WCAs are “Caring and Professional”. Yes, and “Arbeit Macht Frei”.
hi could someone send me these documents please
So with regard to the “ESA letter for claimant to be submitted with ESA50 form, do you quote both reg 29 and reg 35 or is it either or?
Just give the letter to the GP to fill out – John X
I am awaiting a tribunal. .. My gp won’t supply a letter this time round. .. He just shrugged his shoulders and told me that if and when Atos or dwp want info from him he sends them my medical records. .. I doubt if he would sign one of your documents in my circumstances? they are all in it together. …
Alice
Ask your GP for a copy of the ESA 113 form he/she completed. This is the information that the GP will have submitted to the DWP when asked. I assure you your GP will not have sent them your medical records. Had he done so he may have breeched the data protection act.
See whether your GP has filled out the ESA113 comprehensively. If your health has not been accurately reflected in the ESA 113 form then write a letter to the practice manager asking for this to be addressed and copy it to your MP.
Any further problems let us know
Stephen.
Dr Stephen M Carty
Medical Advisor
Black Triangle Campaign
Please note – I contacted my GP, specialist and consultant and not one of them has been contacted by Atos. I contacted the Atos customer relations department and got this as a response:
“Dear Miss Yelland,
In response to your email below, I can confirm that we are not required to obtain medical evidence from treating medical professionals unless we feel this is necessary.
Please refer to my email below for Ms Cuthbert’s qualifications.
I am not aware of who the Decision Maker is. You will need to contact your local Benefit Centre for an answer to this question.
Yours sincerely
Gemma Fowler
Customer Relations Manager”
I had asked for the nurses’ qualifications – all they would say is she’s a qualified nurse who has a license until May next year. Nothing else.
It’s unlikely that Atos will contact any medical professional unless they are on the support group list in the WCA Handbook, as far as I can see. I can be contacted at jo.yelland_green@yahoo.co.uk if you would like to speak to me or would like a copy of my emails with Atos to take to your doctors.
my GP said he couldn’t feel he could fill it in for me, but said i could send it to my consultant for him to do it, as he has more contact with me than my GP. So if anyones GP wont help send them to your consultants/physiotherapists etc. I hope this is of help to those who need it……
Hi all I wrote to the appeal tribunal seting out all my health problems and demonstrated how it fits into section 29 and 35!! I then took the letter to my Gp along with the letter you download from Black triangle!! I have a muscularskeletal disorder of which i was recieving physiotherapy up until an accident in august with a hand held power tool i nearly took my leg off due to pain and cramps in my hand!! My Gp charged 35.00 for a letter agreeing that section 29 and 35 apply to me at this time!! my leg still has not fully healed yet!! so physio is still a long ay off!!! I have not had my appeal yet at the tribunal but I am hoping DWP withdraw with the letter sent to the tribunal!!! we will have to see what happens!! My Gp agrees with this shakeup regarding long term Ib I wonder if the powers from above have spoken?? she said initially not to worry about Atos as she woul and could overide them when the time came??? what changed her mind??
Here i go again, consultant sent the form back, saying “Thankyou for sending me the form that you wish me to compleat. I note that it is actually for your GP to compleat as he holds the whole medical records and I enclose a copy of the letter that i wrote for you in August 2012 which outlines the situation and indicates that you are permanently not fit for work…I have an appointment with my GP in the morning (8th Jan 2013) so i’m keeping my fingers crossed that he will fill it in for me? The only fly in the ointment is that I have an interview with a personal adviser (WFI) at the jobcenterplus on monday (14th Jan) (Saction time here I come)……I will keep you all posted as to how things progress…(I did phone the jobcenter to tell them of my needs for the interview to take place, will be interesting to see if they implement any of them(more than likely they won’t, be it on their heads)…..ttfn..
Hello everyone. Had my appointment with my GP, I gave him a letter explaining everything that was going on with DWP/ATOS. ok he didn’t give me a letter regarding reg 35, he did the next best thing, he gave me an open ended ststement of fitness for work advising that I’m “not fit for work” as he assessed my case on 9/1/2013 and, because of the following condition Ankylosing Spondylitis (advanced). GP told me to take it to jobcenterplus, I eventually got there and the ‘little Hitler’ on the desk said that i “HAD TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT TO GIVE IT TO THEM”??????? while i was there ‘more security appeared??watching me very closely??? (I wasn’t dangerous to anyone there, i couldn’t knock the skin off a rice pudding in my condition), eventually got them to take the statement and photo copied it, at this point i asked “Do i still have to attend the personal adviser interview on monday, as i have a review/appeal on the go?? the only answer i got was ‘Do you have a payment due’. at this point i had to leave as the pain was too much………… will let you all know what happens in the next thrilling instalment of “DWP/ATOS/JOBCENTERPLUS WARSSS. I’m Lukepushover (does anyone wanna be ‘BATHEVADER’. lol)
Hello everyone, (A bit of good news for once). I had my appointment with the ‘personal advisor at jobcentre+ the advisor was agast that I had been called in for an interview to ‘help me back to work’ (placed in WRAG) as they could see that I have serious health problems. I had turned up ‘late to the interview’ and was helped to the other end of the jobcentre+ by a security guard (very nice person) helped into the chair, as i was starting to get into the chair ‘guess what’ my hip gave way with a ‘loud click’ followed by me mumbling something ‘naughty under my breath’ both advisor and guard were very concerned for me. interview eventually went ahead, with the adivsor putting me down as ‘vunerable’ and placing me onto the light caseload so i won’t get called in too often, The advisor will phone me instead of me having to go see them, the advisor asked if i was appealing the DWP to place me in WRAG, i said i’ve done so. i also gave advisor letters from GP/consultant etc, they couldn’t belive that i had been placed in the WRAG group. (the advisor was very good and very sympathetic towards me and said they would keep me on their caseload so i’m not shunted from one advisor to another. So at the moment i’m waiting to see if the DWP will overturn their oppinion to place me in the WRAG group. so fingers crossed
ther are some ‘good people at the jobcentre+’ I hope they don’t get moved onto another centre+. will keep you all posted as to any futher development in the ongoing ‘Saga of “DWP/ATOS/JOBCENTERPLUS WARSSS. this is ‘Lukepushover signing off till the next time……
WHOO HOO
had a phone call from DWP today (thurs 24th jan, 2013. 12:30pm) to say that they couldn’t belive that I had been placed in the WRAG group, when clearly I should of been placed in the support group, anyway they said that the desision has been overturned and that i’m now in the ‘SUPPORT GROUP’ 
and that my appeal will no longer take place as the reconsideration has gone in my favour. I was also told that i should not be ‘reviewed for the next 3 years (time will tell if they keep to their word on this one) so thats another ‘anvil’ thats been removed from around my neck, as i said in my earlier post there are some good people in the DWP.. shame there are not enough of them to go round. keep your eyes open for the sequel ‘DWP STRIKES BACK’. lukepushover signing off till then, (may the force of the black triangle be with you)………:) 
DELIGHTED! CONGRATS & SOLIDARITY!!!
wish me luck…am going to appeal(date not set yet) just printed the letters to take to my gp…hope hes going to support me…
I have used these regs and although it has taken several months and many calls to DWP , I have had my tribunal cancelled and I have been put in the support group. I wasn’t aware of your campaign . I just made my way through all the esa regs and came across these exceptional circumstances regs. It took alot of work to gain the necessary documents to support this and I had to really chase the DWP because they wouldn’t even look at my evidence to start with. They were just going to send it to tribunal, but at last I have succeeded and I will have my money back-dated. I am so relieved.Good luck to everyone else . Its hard going , but it is possible.
Diana : Wanna WIN against ATOS :
SEND TO EVERY DISABLED PERSON :
1-ATOS “HEALTHCARE”PLC
is the governments “healthcare provider”
2-SO YOU HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT-TO “COMPLAIN” ABOUT A HEALTHCARE provider…! 3-TO :
THE GENERAL MEDICAL COUNCIL!!!
4-The GMC, have to, HAVE TO, INVESTIGATE-EVERY COMPLAINT…!!!
5-SO- ONE DISABLED PERSON COMPLAINS
6-WHAT ABOUT 1000, 10,000, 100,000…
7-ATOS – HAVE A LEGAL DUTY, TO ANSWER EVERY COMPLAINT-EVERY!!! 8-COSTING ATOS MILLIONS OF £££’s
9-TYING UP ATOS SERVICES….!!!
10-FOR YEARS…
PASS IT ON, DIANA
-WE ALL DO THIS…
*IT’LL BURY ATOS AND DWP, IN CLAIMS COSTING MILLIONS…
I have just recieved my forms for ESA and I am dreading it, I had my DLA for life but I suppose it wont be long before I get forms for that too. I am so down and depressed that I have jus had a mini stroke (TIA) I know my family are very worried about me, I am so glad I have come across this site.
It might be best not to conclude that these alterations to the welfare rules/laws have anything to do with work, or the aiding disabled and sick, but purely a financial exercise in cutting benefit and feeding multi-million pound companies that the politicians have investments in.
So, it’s pain for all, and gain for those that need to be on trial for their crooked manipulations, and the media moguls who lie every day to the public, and pull the strings of puppet-politicians.
We must fight them, no matter how ill we all feel or depressed and suicidal! This is not the first time in history this has occurred, but we may be able to influence these particular cruel moron’s demise, and make the future a little more secure for those in genuine need.
Remember that Labour initiated this, with another tax evading politician (allegedly) and as expected the Tories will make it much worse.
One can call oneself any party, it is just a word, but we are at war with politicians that need removing from office, and preferably from any position of authority.
HOW TO BEAT ATOS :
COPY AND SHARE THIS FROM YOUR FACEBOOK PAGE :
TO EVERY DISABLED PERSON :
*ATOS “HEALTHCARE”PLC
is the governments “healthcare provider”
*YOU HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT-TO “COMPLAIN” ABOUT A HEALTHCARE PROVIDER. (AND ITS FREE)
*They have to, HAVE TO, INVESTIGATE-EVERY COMPLAINT.
*WHAT ABOUT 1000, 10,000, 100,000… MILLIONS OF COMPLAINTS
*HEALTH OMBUDSMAN
*THE GENERAL MEDICALCOUNCIL
*THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION
*ATOS &DWP- HAVE A LEGAL DUTY, TO ANSWER EVERY COMPLAINT.
*IT’LL BURY ATOS AND DWP, IN CLAIMS COSTING MILLIONS TO PROCESS.
* “THAT’S” HOW TO WIN…
*MAKE THEIR CONTRACT : “COLLAPSE”
COMPLAIN TO :
1-The Parliamentary and Health OMBUDSMAN
2-The Human Rights Commission-Europe
3-The General Medical Council.
GENERAL MEDICAL COUNCIL
3, HARDMAN STREET
MANCHESTER
M3 3AW
TEL : 0161-923-6200
FAX : 0161-923-6201
EMAIL : gmc@gmc-uk.org on
*Lets halt THEIR :
“WORK CAPABILITY”
could you please send me them too helen
I thought this would have been common knowledge as it’s also contained within the DWP’s Guide To ESA which gives the points descriptors – which are kind of vital to read to tailor responses so that the relevant information about ones disabilities is related on the form.
(http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf)
Anyway, since being moved onto ESA myself, I’ve specifically stated on the forms that, ignoring any points scoring (I ‘should’ have more than enough btw), I am applying under the “Exceptional Circumstances Rule”, supported medically, on both my original claim and 1 year reassessment and had both claims agreed without a medical…
So I can certainly testify that this appears to work very effectively.
Whilst perhaps not a popular belief – and I am certainly not suggesting that ATOS are perfect (particularly with regard to what I have heard anecdotally about medical assessments) – by giving all of the information upfront then, at least in this regard, they have been incredibly useful in my personal situation.
Thank you for this, I have been away ill for past week but back 110% now. They won’t let me appeal point blank have tried. But I will pass this on to as many people I can. If there is anything else you would like me to foward let me know x
Hi Jessica, how do you mean that they “wont let you appeal point blank”. I tought that everybody has a right to appeal. (??)
I had to go to a tribunal about DLA in October and was still refused so have had to reapply for the DLA again. They refused that as well so, after contacting CAB, I have to appeal again.
I have Hypermobility Syndrome, Depression, Stress, Anxiety and Panic attacks.
During the Tribunal I explained that I need help to wash my hair and get dried after a shower and was told that I should use a terry towelling dressing gown and drip dry which I feel is very disrespectful. They didn’t give me or my mum the chance to explain anything including when we tried to explain about the Panic Attacks and how they affect me. I told them that I bolt into the road infront of traffic as I don’t pay attention to my surroundings but they didnt seem to want to know.
My depression has got worse, as well as my hypermobility as I am so stressed out with all of this going on and now I’m having to go through this process again as well as the Incapacity Benefit thing!! It is completely stressing me out and I am finding it harder to cope with everything
My GP pretty much blankly refused to sign this document. I think he was scared by it. Sincerely hope other deserving people have more enlightened doctors than I have.
I’d change my GP and if enough did that the GP’s would soon take note as nothing like hitting them in the pocket
This regualtion thing isn’t explained that well at all.
In 2010, I had my appeal rule that I was unfit for work and regulation 29b applied.
Doe’s this now mean that because of that ruling, I am now immune from WCA decisions?
No, not necessarily. It depends on whether your medical condition has changed. If it hasn’t, we advise you to ask the GP to give you a letter saying so and that he/she believes that Regulation 29 still applies. Then send it in immediately and let us know the outcome. Cheers, Bob.
Trying to get a GP to write, or sign anything now is near on impossible as you’re probably aware.
I support any campaign agaisnt this corupt system, but I think it’s misleading giving people false hope by stating “how to gain exemption and immunity” with those regulations.
I had a WCA in january, which obviously went in my favour but not 3 months later, another ESA50 turned up.
It seems if they want to get you off ESA, they will get you off one way or another.
Just to add, think of the headache the DWP would have if everyone covertly recorded their WCA on their mobile phones.
It’s perfectly legal aslong as the other party is not publicly identified, as in you don’t upload the audio to Youtube with the name of the Dr or nurse.
A campaign like this would certainly clench a few buttocks in the department, and if enough people did it, would gain far more publicity.
article 25 of the universal declaration of human rights. everyone has the right to a standard of living ADEQUATE for the health and wellbeing of himself and his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. 2 motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. all children,wether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
forgot to say anyone can take a department to the european court of human rights.
the european convention on human rights, article 4 states also, no one should be held in slavery or servitude. 2 no one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour. definition of slave, person who is the legal property of another or others and is bound to absolute obedience, human chattel, helpless victim to or of some dominating influence.
Question: I have uncontrolled Idiopathic Generalised Epilepsy. I am going to an Atos medical assessment (sic) on the 18th December. Would the section regarding uncontrolled conditions (they have already been repeatedly advised that it is uncontrolled) be suitable for me? My doctor, neurologist and specialist nurse consider me a risk to myself and others and that I’m not to go far from my own front door unaided as the seizures can be very severe. What do you think?
Does anybody know what percentage of people actually pass the medical at the first attempt? also, what are the statistics per centre?
My GP yesterday said that she was unable to give me a supporting letter to help with my appeal, she did however give me a print out of my admission summary. I think I now need to contact the hospital to ask for my psychiatric records.
Now I have just found out that they can refuse me my records because of my mental illness. What can I do now .
Have you requested a summary from them? They can give you a general summary. Also, I’m presuming mitigating harm has been the reason for refusal. If that’s the case (essentially, they worry that showing you the records may make things worse for you and your health) you can request they forward them to the Atos test centre under the date and time of your appointment, or that they send it on to the DWP decision maker, though you will need to ask the DWP who that is and get the address.
Thank you for your reply Jo
I have suggested to a few people that they try regs 29 & 35. One tried and her GP would not sign the letter. Another suggested it would look contrived to try and put the regs in for her Tribunal hearing.
From what I know, it looks as though the regs could make it easier for someone to be accepted in the support group. However, I am getting feedback which suggests otherwise and am finding it difficult to know how to overcome the doubts people have. Any suggestions please?
The regs is an excellent idea and according to the WCA Handbook they can be raised at any time as they should be considered AT ALL TIMES. Thanks for putting this up Black Triangle.
In regards to the letter being refused by doctors, there’s only a couple of things I can suggest, going on my own experience.
1/ Rewrite the letter in your own words, then ask the doctor
2/If they still won’t, ask them to look at the regs, see if you fit in and then to write the letter themselves.
3/If they still refuse, ask them if they would be willing to put the reason why they don’t agree with the letter in writing, as you intend to use it at an Atos assessment/appeal and file a formal complaint against Atos to the GMC (last resort).
I’ve found that most doctors, when faced with conditions, illness or disability, like to feel they have all the answers and are the font of all knowledge. A pre-written letter challenges their perceived authority and gets their backs up. Giving them the option to look at the information as you believe it falls in with their assessment massages their egos and is a nicer way to get them to do the right thing.
My recent doctors have been exceptionally good and are more honest in regards to their experience and ability to treat my uncontrolled epilepsy. If only it was the same with more of them…
Hi all, like so many on here my family have had to endure the DWP / Atos torture regeime. My wife has been on IB since 2003 after being given permanent ill health retirement from work, and her health has only declined since. She got 0 points in her WCA then 27 at appeal but was put in wrag. We are just about to send in a supercession request due to evidenced decline in health and we wrote to her GP with thid info
He wouldn’t even entertain the idea of using the letter format. He felt it looked too legal and he was scared off. The only thing he was prepared to do was countersign a letter written by my wife. His statement simply read “I support her application” followed by his signature and his rubber stamp. Better than nothing but not carrying much weight.
I appealed against an ATOS decision in June 2012 stating that I was fit for work, although getting fit lines from my GP for 6 months at a time! Today I have received notification that the decision has not been overturned and it is now being sent to a Tribunal!!! I have been living off £71 a week since June, to keep me, a house and a 20yr old whose at college. I think Im going to have to stop eating as I cant afford it. I have fibromyalgia, copd, arthritis and disc bulges in my lower spine – I worked for 34 years and was paid off because of being off sick. There is no cure for this and I am in chronic pain constantly. How can they decide I am fit for work when my GP says Im not???
Couple of bits of advice – get your MP involved, they can bring this up directly with Atos and the tribunal for you and they hold alot more sway with them than they realise. Also, you can contact the DWP and Jobcentre in writing advising that you are appealing the decision and that due to this you feel you should not have to face financial hardship due to incorrect decision making. Ask them to confirm, in writing, that they will continue to pay your benefits whilst the tribunal/appeal is ongoing and that, should they refuse to do so, you request a full explanation in writing.
Do not go to any of the meetings, assessments or similar on your own, take someone with you who can act as a witness should you require it.
For those of you with non-visible physical conditions or mental illness, please watch this video – it is not a guaranteed way out but can be helpful in forcing Atos hand and proves that they *have* to obey their contract properly (thanks to dirtytrainers for this): http://youtu.be/NiXy9kYvA6g
I recently got my form to fill in which I finally got round to completing and posting yesterday so we’ll see how it goes.
I have a number of ongoing medical issues which include severe depression, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, excessively High BP (180 +) and an unusual form of a condition called Hyperhidrosis which means in stressful situations or with the minimal physical activity I sweat so much it looks like I’ve just stepped out of a shower. I also had a TIA a while ago, and on top of all that was peeing blood over Christmas. ((Been to GP to get tests on my prostate)).
Anyway, after a nervous breakdown many years ago during which I attempted suicide I was hospitalised and signed off work indefinitely and placed on DLA. After a review a year or so later however because as they said ”I had made no further attempts to kill myself” I was suddenly deemed to no longer be in need of DLA and was instead placed on Incapacity benefit. The stress of losing that extra money didn’t do much to help but I got on with it cos I had no choice.
During my time on IB Ihad to undergo 2 medical assessments. The first one was won on appeal, the DWP’s case getting rejected in less than 2 minutes, and after having to struggle for a few months on half benefit it was reinstated to me.
A few years later I was called in for a second one and was awarded the benefit without any problems. Even the doctor carrying out the assessment said he couldn’t understand why I’d been called in again as nothing had changed.
Now because of the Governments re-branding of the benefits system I find myself having to go through it all and ”prove I’m ill” once again. This is immoral and seems to me to be nothing less than blatant harassment by ‘Mr I wanna make a name for myself Ian Duncan Smith’ because like thousands of others I’m an “easy target”.
I hope I’m wrong, and I hope I’m strong enough mentally to resist the temptation myself, but I can see an awful lot of people feeling the only way out of yet more misery piled upon them through no fault of their own is to take their own lives. Maybe only then when the stench of the dead bodies reaches David Cameron’s nostrils will he realise how arrogant his phrase ”we are all in this together” actually sounds.
Great site. Thanks for listening. And keep up the fight.
Well said
Well we got the result of my wifes supersession request. DWP contacted her and said she clearly should have been put in the Support Group from the start. They moved her to that group immediately and back dated it to December 2011, not to be reviewed until December 2013. So after 15 mega stressful months a massive relief. We’ve asked for a statement of reasons to establish on what basis she was put in the Support Group.
Fantastic news Chris..
I have my appt. today in a few hours, dreading is not the word, I’ve had my money stopped before and apart from ‘crises loans’ doled out on the whim of whoever chance dictated would answer the phone that day, i spent over 6 months begging for cash to a stranger over the phone so i could eat every few weeks, one time being told “you’ve survived this long without money you can survive another two weeks” when a dubious interviewer refused to accept the truth of my circumstances, circumstances caused initially by my own apathy but continued by an office who then spent months dragging heels.
I was awarded benefits eventually but i spent 6 months, sat in my room, at times not eating for 3 or 4 days in a row or scraping through a week rationing a loaf of bread, not the best circumstances for someone who already has mental health issues. I hope i don’t scare anyone by this, the reactions of many of the staff i talked to were of shock and regret at red tape, except for my dear friend Eileen i mentioned above. It just all seems so wrong.
I do remember thinking at my appt. the irony of claiming apathy, depression and anxiety while obviously being quite capable of getting myself to the interview, but it’s one thing to suffer so long and force yourself to show up once when starvation is the alternative and quite another to be capable of doing so consistently, it is absurd to consider that because a person can show up once that they can happily show up at a job 5 days a week and function as expected as iv’e read in some cases above, i’m rambling and will sshh
Why wasn’t you given money to live off??
Why wouldn’t they give you money?
isn’t it an infringement of your human rights?
What happened about your rent?
did they pay it?
we have got to go through this and to tell you the truth mentally I dunno how we’d cope?
we have no family to borrow money off
No wonder that many are commiting suicide
The problem is, it isn’t always easy to get medical evidence when you have a long standing condition that may have been diagnosed in childhood. For instance, if you were diagnosed with autism as a child and have been having care ever since. Or if you were born with your disability. Very often your diagnosis becomes lost in the mists of time. And GP’s aren’t necessarily any good when it comes to complex or rare conditions. Even so, even with copious medical evidence, such as the registered blind man turned down for ESA, featured on a vlog recently, ATOS assessors still sometimes decide that they know best than a whole bunch of senior experts.
Those of us with complex disabilities (I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Aspergers, brittle asthma, severe allergies and fibromyalgia) often have a trolley full of medical notes and endless assessments with consultants and other doctors, so that it is very difficult to pick out the evidence people like the DWP need. I can prove all of these diagnoses, but how to prove that as a result of them, I have difficulty preparing dinner 3 nights per week? Or that because of Aspergers, I find it difficult to manage my complex medication regime? Even I can’t really understand which condition is causing which problem, as its often a mixture, and different problems are treated by entirely separate consultants in different parts of the hospital. All I know is that I can’t do something. Probably as a result, I have been turned down for DLA three times.
Anna, I would go as far as saying, a reluctance from GPs and Hospital Consultants to write medical valid clinic letters supportiing diagnosis. I have noticed that my Cardio never writes about my heart failure symptoms, or its affects on mobility and physical exertion limitations. He never ever mentions anything valid or helpful. Sometimes, he goes as far as denying those symptoms or even the heart failure. LOL. I have echocardiograms which shows consistent chronic left ventricular dysfunction, systolic and diastolic heart failure, as well as other cardiac and pulmonary related issues. Its collusion…
Well we got written confirmation of why my wife was put in the support group for ESA. It was through meeting the Mobilising descriptor not through application of Reg 35 (2), despite having GP support for both.
Good luck to anyone else that trys to apply it.
Okay, I have now had my assessment, where I directly mentioned (during recording) the regulations. I have also found that extra evidence can be submitted directly to the DwP if you just post it with a covering letter with your name and National Insurance number on it so I am sending the regs letter in too. I’ll let you know how it goes.
JJ – can the Green Party use your letter templates. We’re trying our best to cover the shortfall in advocates (the government has cut funding for CAB offices and has stopped people getting legal aid for employment and disability issues) but we’re getting swamped. It’s costing everyone from the leadership down 8 hours of extra work a week, sometimes more, and we’re not all elected officials – just local candidates and volunteers. If you’re happy to give your permission, I can set up a help pack to go to all Green Party advocates, members and volunteers that need it. I also have a few friends at some CABs and hospitals who would love to use it in their work on the quiet (can’t let the government find out until AFTER it’s proved a success and been advertised as such, otherwise they’ll put the kybosh on it). What do you think?
Jo
EMPHATICALLY YES!
Any news yet:
Hi Chris: what is a supercession request? Is it possible to write a letter that should I be forced to work, there will be worsening of health, based on long standing chronic health issues. Should I be forced to work, there will be legal reperucussions as to deteriorating health? Or consult with a solicitor and look at the legality?
Hi, a supersession request is where you ask DWP to look at your case again based on an evidenced deterioration in health i.e. The picture has changed. This is different to a reconsideration as that only means they look again at information that they had at the beginning.
As for the other part of your question this i suppose is where you could look to apply either Reg 29 or Reg 35 but you’d need medical back up for your claim as opposed to just your own view.
I’m no expert, that’s just my view.
Helen, could I please have a copy as well of the three documents if you can find the time epurdue55@gmail.com
May I suggest to Helen that she opens a page of Facebook and loads them on there fur everyone to see. Failing his could I also add to your burdon by also requesting the info from you hon. My email address is haltonkal@yahoo.com. Bless you x
What a brilliant site! Much inspiration from the people here…
Helen – if you’re still out there! Could you send me a copy of those three documents… Thank you! shugkennedy@hotmail.co.uk
Hi all could some one please send me a copy as well of the three documents, much appreciated have docs appoint on tue, need to get him to see this and the extent we are having to go to just to recieve a benefit, will let all know my doc’s opinion, my doctor is the best he hates anything to do with dwp,
Greatly Appreciated.
my email is…..
fefe73@hotmail.co.uk, doh new to this, this is my email thankyou…
Helen, could I please have a copy as well of the three documents if you can find the time:-)
oops email address julie19682002@yahoo.co.uk THANKS
Hi helen, please could you email me the three documents if you have the time. thanks
Looking at the letter above for the doc it seems ti imply that its for appeal purposes? can some just clarify for me how and when this should be used~?
Hi I know this is going to sound a bit like im thick. But I was on incapacity benefit from 1990 and last year it obviously changed to ESA. I was called along for a medical and was put into the work related category. I got a letter from ESA also saying that it will run out after a year (this april 13).
I also receive DLA at highest care and low mobility . I suffer diabetes, underactive thyroid. binge eating disorder, nerve damage to my feet. ibs. incontinence as well as ptsd and borderline personality disorder.
what im trying to find out is this. if I ask for appeal aren’t they going to ask my why its taken so long for me to appeal? Reason being seriously I don’t understand much of it and was unaware till last week there where two groups.
What happens in april do I have to reapply from scratch? any advice on this I would be very grateful. I feel I should be in the support group.
thanks
Can anyone throw some light on my question please. Looking at the letter above for the doc it seems ti imply that its for appeal purposes? can some just clarify for me how and when this should be used~?
You can ask your doctor to write a letter invoking the regulations at any stage of the process. It’s a template. Solidarity, Gerald.
Ok I thought it was the template I use as it is? which implies its for appeal purposes.
My doctor won’t even give me a supporting letterthis time round. ..
Hi helen, please could you email me the three documents if you have the time. thanks..
kevinbn14ab@gmail.com
I’ve just received my appointment for a medical appointment with ATOS. I now have three weeks to worry about it. Worry=stress=exacerbation of depression. I just feel so sick of it all.
Fellow disabled minions
I am writing for some advice as I must admit I am confused (which isn’t hard for me), I was placed on DLA with middle rate on care high mobility then after I submitted a load of papers detailing everything signed by my GP they reconsidered to High on both with an INDEFINITE award. Now this ESA malarkey comes up (they know about my stroke and the botched appendix op that has caused a 6 year plus non healing wound, plus heart problems blah blah) I’m only 32 and live like a 80 year old (I do love my slippers and dressing gown though) the problem I have is that I have been unable to attend two WCA’s due to recurring infection, high temps sickness the lot, I asked atos for a home visit (they re arranged the appointment themselves and said we had to get GP to send a fax) the problem is that my GPs’ won’t send a fax without a letter from dwp asking for the information themselves quoting “they understand what I’m asking but data protection won’t allow them to send medical information pertaining to me without the other group asking for it” eventhough I am giving them consent to do so!! I’m banding my head against the per verbal wall it’s maddening! I have been in touch with the benefits center all the way and we spoke to a really nice guy who was trying to help, I told him the circumstances and he said given my circumstances then it won’t be hard to prove good cause and I shouldn’t have anything stopped…. But reading horror stories I’m petrified especially with a payment due tomorrow, the wife will probably leave and go to her mums with our daughter , I have been failed by every system and have the worst luck. I’ve gone from playing sport for our country, serving in our forces to this mess I am now, do they seriously think I just want to screw the system or something? I’m just lost I guess looking for answers
why do atos want a ‘fax’ from your GP?? if they want medical info from your GP they should send the relavent form (ESA113 I think it’s the one) for your GP to fill in, and then your GP charges them for it, it sounds to me like atos are trying to save money by getting your GP to fax the information to them for nothing, if this is the case then atos are breacking DWP guidance….without the exact nature of what atos asked i’m only taking a stab in the dark here………..
hi helen would appriate it if you could email the forms.many thanks
hi helen could you email me the forms to..thankyou
btfindlay@hotmail.com
I had my ATOS appointment today, and took with me a letter of support from my doctor. Now I just have the excrutiating wait for the outcome of the “medical”.
Hi, I’ve tried clicking on the links but none will open. Not sure if Helen has some information she can email? If so please can you send to me at m4speedway@hotmail.co.uk
thank you
just adding this as I forgot to tick the ‘notify’ boxes
I am sorry if this is a redundant question because it may have been asked already, but i struggle to read pages of writing so can only scan prior comments. I currently have my forms to fill out to carry on receiving my ESA, which i receive at the higher rate since my last assessment over two years ago, and want to know is it worth my while getting my doctor to fill out the draft letter above about 29 and 35? I know having to go back to work would affect me adversely as does my doctor, in fact she and I know it would be impossible, so would it help to get the letter and send it with my forms? thank you by the way my forms have to be posted within the next 3 ot 4 days.
Yes Angela – ask your doctor to fill out the form we have provided and send it isn with the forms X
Hi im wondering if anyone can offer me advice here. I currently get DLA high care and low mobility for my illnesses and of course was switched over to ESA from incapacity benefit. I went to ATOS last year and after the decision to put me in the WRAG group, I suffer mental health problems as well as a whole list of physical illnesses. In my ignorance because of my severe anxiety I didn’t realise there was two diff groups for ESA.
I was on contributionary ESA and that runs out in a months time, im panicking. I went to CAB for advive and I have a husband he gets carers allowance for me but nothing else. CAB suggested we might as a couple be better off claiming Income support and me coming off ESA.
IM totally confused, I really need to try and claim income related ESA but have no idea how I go about that, CAB phoned esa folk they cant just transfer me over as they need to take other income such as carers and child tax credit into account so I would need to reapply show proof.
Does anyone know if at some point I can ask to be put in the support group? does anyone know of anywhere in the Glasgow, Scotland area that might help me with this process, its a nightmare which I don’t understand, IM just so worried when my money runs out in a month. All advice gratefully received.
Well my worst fears today came in the post, they are stopping my benefit on 29th march as good cause was not accepted! My appointment was due on 12th feb, we had been in constant contact with both DWP and ATOS because I had deteriorated further and as a complication developed an abcess in my face with swelling into my left eye as well as my botched appendix op wound infection, high temperature of 38.2c, sickness etc and was just too ill to attend, the day before the WCA we spoke to someone in the reassessment team/benefit center (I had already requested a home visit but the problem I was facing is that ATOS wanted a fax from my doctor saying why I couldn’t attend and why I’d need a home visit but my GP wouldn’t issue it without a covering letter from either DWP/ATOS requesting the info) this advisor told me what many other advisors had sais and try the GP again and if not successful to contact in the morning (which was the day of the WCA) as they could sort something out…. We placed the call and got some obnoxious woman who refused to put me through and instead arranged a call back for that day any time up to 4:30pm… A call never came and when we rang the next day (13 feb) was told that a call was not logged nor was a call back request made!!! Anyway the form to explain why I didn’t attend came and we detailed everything from what was advised to chronic illness ( which includes MRSA and pseudomonas infections) and the GP contact details so they could explain why they wouldn’t issue the fax and they have not accepted good cause, even the CAB are bewildered by it! My benefit stops on the 29march, the CAB have requested a reconsideration while the GL24 appeal goes in (the CAB have been brilliant today) I’m lost for words and have done everything humanly possible to get a WCA done! I get the highest DLA award both Mobility and CARe on an indefinite award and don’t understand why they can’t see how bad things are for me…. Sorry for having a moan as at least I still have something coming in for now while others don’t…..where do I go from here? What’s my best course of action? What the hell do I do ?
Use the templates provided – take them to your GP and ask them to use it to write a letter invoking Regulations 29 & 35 and send back to the DWP – right away! Solidarity!
I’ll try JJ any chance someone can email them to terfmopdaz@hotmail.com pretty pretty please??? I only have an IPAD so might be able to email em to my doctor
Oooh I am a mega heathen I forgot to say a big thank you for replying, sorry about that brain fart
I am going through the mill at the moment. I scored 0 points at WCA the HCP distorted my answers and the report contains blatant lies. I have a local welfare lady coming to see me because I have received my appeal pack. I am going to try my GP with the template letter and docs. I am contacting the specialist who treats me to get his findings and prognosis I will also ask him to include the risk of making my condition worse with work.
I have contacted my MP and MEP.
I am not really well enough for this kind of battle, and my condition has worsened by this process. Has anyone made a complaint to ATOS about their HCP. I am certainly going to but I don’t want it to effect my appeal.
YOU HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT-TO COMPLAIN ABOUT A HEALTHCARE PROVIDER. (AND IT’S FREE)
THEY HAVE TO, INVESTIGATE-EVERY COMPLAINT.
FIND OUT IF THE HCP WAS A DOCTOR OR NURSE AND BIG TIME COMPLAIN
*HEALTH OMBUDSMAN
*THE GENERAL MEDICAL COUNCIL
*THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION
*ATOS & DWP- HAVE A LEGAL DUTY, TO ANSWER EVERY COMPLAINT.
COMPLAIN TO:
1-The Parliamentary and Health OMBUDSMAN
2-The Human Rights Commission-Europe
3-The General Medical Council.
GENERAL MEDICAL COUNCIL
3, HARDMAN STREET
MANCHESTER
M3 3AW
TEL : 0161-923-6200
FAX : 0161-923-6201
EMAIL : gmc@gmc-uk.org on
You have become another product of the DWPs BILL GUNNYEON.
He is the Angel of Death that is complicit in taking lives.
The twisted corrupt software that ATOS use is the brainchild of the above, in conjunction with another lunatic, Sir Mansel Aylward.
DWP ARE TRYING DESPERATELY TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM THE SUICIDES THAT THEY HAVE UNDERWRITTEN………
Gunnyeon is supposed to be the Chief Medical Officer of the DWP. He is paid solely for selling, each and every disabled person, down the river…..
I hope the knot is tight when it finally brings him to earth……..
My relative left work on ill health and as been in wrag group since August 2011, they been once to see advisor they refuse to go anymore suffer with mental health, GP, Mental Health & MP been writing letters to say relative should be in the support group as they started deterioating June 2012. Appeal was put in then to go into support group not had a date for appeal. Sent in regulation 35 into DWP that GP filled in 2 week ago had no response. Even MP not had a response to last letter, he as wrote again today complaining. Relative been told the wrag is mandatory and as already missed 2 appointments and as been advised sanctions may be applied if they miss 3rd appointment made for next 2 weeks. What can we do next? tried everything I can think of relative will not go to wrag meeting told Ingeus this. Amazing how a nurse at Atos can state relative should be well enough to return to work within 6 months yet no medical team as been able to improve relatives condition in years, think Atos should be renamed Lourdes if they can declare people ok yet GP`s and Consultants and Mental Health cannot
I am currently on appeal with my dla claim. Waited a year to be heard at a tribunal court. When i got there they sent me away because they wanted to look at me doctors records. I have since been told that they have requested a atos doctor to come and visit/assess me in my home. I have chronic fibroymyalgia/m.e and chronic ibs c which was caused by high doses of antibiotics. Would this information poss help my tribunal appeal, i am so tired of fihhting! But the dla would help me pay for some care as i have a 9 month old baby which is severly impacting my health. I currently recieve esa work related groip. Thanks in advance
make sure you have someone with you, a proffesional of some kind, do you have a social worker who could attend. either record the interview or take notes. good luck
Michelle, get a doctors report, whatever you do, dont let ATOS come to examine you at home. I have read lots of blogs where they attended the client. You would be safer letting Fred West in for a cuppa………
A proper report from a GP might cost a few quid, moneys tight but its the best option.
Home visits from ATOS will give you a medical report that states you have a nice home, neat and tidy and how much effort you have put into your appearance and your pets are well tended!
Your ailments will be trivial and you will be able to walk to the south pole and back….
What everybody should do at an ATOS examination is pick the laptop up and sling it against the wall!!!
We are human beings not a character in a disability denial software game……
Agree
That would be a very satisfying thing to do.
But you can just imagine the written report “client picked up laptop and threw with force at wall.
Upper body strength excellent, no physical problems above waist. Fit for immediate work”
But on a serious note if you can avoid Atos in your home do so they would only twist what you say and your circumstances to suit their biased and lying report.
This whole Lima software is biased against you but still Atos workers lie in their reports even though any nurse and doctor should abide by their duty of care which states that they should be honest!
fit for work to support group today 13, march with 24 months recommendation on appeal using rule 29/35 from template from black triangle ,thank so so much ,stress off for a while .
quite a while now ,nothing from black triangle nothing
was in court this morning for my tribunal hearing was awarded 0 points by atos so appealed against it 7 months later got awarded 18 points by judge in court so f**k um .
cmon everbody keep fighting there is hope afterall
Congratulations, Lee! HOORAY!
I had my ATOS appointment on March 1st, and was stressing out about it. On this forum I got lots of support and advice. I got a letter from my GP and took it with me to the “medical”. I found out yesterday that I have been placed in the support group. This is such a huge weight off my mind. Thanks so much for the virtual hand holding!
Just a quick update, I got a reply back from my MP stating he had passed my concerns onto the Minister Dept of work and pensions. In other words it has been kicked into the long grass. My MEP has not even replied. I asked my MP Stephen O Brien what he had done for the sick and disabled in his constituency. He did not reply to this question so I must assume the answer is “Nowt”
What’s the name of your local MP and MEP – I’ll try to get the local Green Party to have a word with them, if you don’t mind?
Sorry, he’s the Tory in Eddisbury, isn’t he? I’ll see if I can get any answers.
well what a bummer, I had my welfare adviser come this afternoon to prepare for my tribunal. We spent nearly 2 hours going through the papers and deciding which descriptors apply to me. At the end she said I am sorry but they have changed my contract I will be able to prepare your paperwork but I won’t be allowed to come to the tribunal.
What a let down, I don’t think I am able to adequately represent myself so It looks as though I am going to have to throw the towel in. Apparently a paper tribunal is a waste of time. Has anybody any helpful advice where I can get a representative from.
I went for atos thing in feb. Feb 1st. Got a letter saying i am in support group. very odd since I said i wanted to be in WRAG cos I want help finding work cos of my MH problems. I want to work. Life is weird. I want to work and others don’t, and I am on support and other I feel more deserving of it are not on support. mad system.
Could you email me the documents too plz, just been put on WRAG and am going to fight! fionacollins@rocketmail.com ….. thanks.
Hi Helen, I would be grateful if you could email me the shortened documents.
Thank You
Hi Helen, Can I be cheeky and ask if you can e-mail me the docs as well, my mouse is broke so find difficult to copy and paste. On above e-mail.
Thk Jeannette
i am in the support group, with premium, for last two years, permitent condition from doctors butchering me, it took me five years to get in the support group, ive got to beg my GP for letter ans ive been house bound for 5 years, never got copy of last accessment and i dont know the time limit till i have to have another home visit and the dreaded brown envelope and now i have to find £45 a month for bedroom & council tax, my head cant take no more and i have no support and im on my own 24 hrs 7 days a week,
im a carer sharon 24/7 no holiday im sorry for your situation/health i have health problems im a wrag got to go see advicer very soon what do i do abandon my mam or or get advice from jcp and be sanctioned, have we no strenght to have a sit in, something, power to the poor
Who ultimately makes the decision as to what group you are put into with regards to your ESA.Is it DWP or ATOS.
They say its the DM at the Dwp but I believe its Atos.
My wife has been on IB for a number of years with various health problems.a couple of months ago she was lettered by DWP to call in for an interview regarding this.after the interview the letter arrived telling her she had been placed in aWRAG and outlined her benefit details,of course like a few people she assumed everything was ok.then six weeks later she is informed that her money will stop in august.not only has she not been medically assessed by anyone she is assuming that the girl in the first interview has made the decision.at the second interview she was told that it would b a quick one as she was in obvious pain and discomfort and that it was plain to see she was unfit for work.this has left her rather bewildered as to who actually decides that a person is unfit to work or not.if someone’s benefit is to stop you would think that such a life changing decision would warrant more than a half hour interview with someone at a job centre hence the earlier question.
i will be due my assement after 3 years in july, i dont think i can cope with all the questions, i fought so long for doctors to help me and to get on enhanced disabilty, and my condition wont changed as doctors left me with bowel or bladder control and ive never known pain like this, so basically its for life, no painkiller stop it, so how will they be leave me and leave me in the support group, mental health isses have stopped me leaving my home for over 5 years, lost my friends etc and only have one visitor a week. i wont be able to cope, im in debt as i tried to take them to court etc, but lost cause the doc who did this said she did nothing wrong! no one to help me!
Very sorry to hear of your condition Sharon ,I sincerely hope things get better for you.I have been reading of the plight of some people on this site and it would make you weep.I wish I had the answer but I don’t.
if anyone can send me documents so my sis can read them, i have been like this for 8 years and only in support for nearly 3 years my 63 year old mum looks after me, and been house bound for over 5 years, i would be grateful for help as my doc thinks im talking out of my bum, i struggle to eat 1 toast all day and rely on my mum. no one will help me.
Has anyone had any success using Regulations 29 and 35
Gerald, I took a letter to my ATOS medical from my doctor, quoting the regs, and I was placed in the support group. So I would definitely recommend it.
Thanks for the reply.
Could someone please email me these documents…will shortly be getting ESA to reconsider WRAG to support group even ATOS DOCTOR (yes she was a doctor) Recommended support group….when I phone person said it was a no brainer and that I should have be put in support group….but because decision has been made I have to get them to re consider decision….how stupid is that…..they even went against their own ATOS doctor.
Can someone please send me the updated version of section 35 and 29….can someone advise if ATOS doctor states support group and dwp put me in WRAG….should I just point this put to them and ask them to reconsider…..help!
I didn’t know there was an updated version? can someone add a link please.
plz can you send me up to date ones plz, im dreading this year and cannot cope with the stress, ty dorey69@hotmail.co.uk
Oooops I meant updated template version for s.35 & s.29 by email……would appreciated advise also on above re….what do I do if ATOS doc says support group and dwp pen pusher says WRAG ……should I just ask them to re consider and point out what their own doctor says……..
I have just read on another forum that the B M A are telling Gp’s not to sign these exemptions.
I have followed up on this claim that the BMA are advising GPs not to sign the reg 29 letter. There is no evidence to support this that I am aware of. The BMA have made no attempt to contact me whatsoever.
The letter has been distributed widely within Lothian to all GPs and and appears on the Lothian NHS intranet as a download.
The LMC (local medical committee) who are a GP representative group within the BMA ,feel that GP s should not be doing any unfunded work – including appeal letters but in my view they are on the wrong side of the argument.
GP s are independent practitioners and they are free to sign or not sign as they see fit. The BMA do not regulate or impose themselves on this issue nor can they. This post is in my opinion misinformation. However if you would like to tell me who this GP is who has made this claim about the BMA s comments then I would be happy to follow this up
regards
Dr Stephen M Carty
Medical Advisor
Black Triangle
which forum? plz share
http://dwpexamination.org/forum/general-discussion/b-m-a-tell-gp-not-to-sign/#p85790
Hi I took this form quoting regulations 29 and 35 to my doctor and she agreed that the decision that placed me in the WRAG was detrimental to my health. She wrote a letter saying this and I sent it in, thinking if my decision was reconsidered I would eventually have to appeal as they weren’t likely to overturn it. Just under 11 weeks later I got a letter saying I don’t need to go to independent tribunal as they’ve placed me in the support group. I just wanted to thank everyone on this site for their invaluable advice and assistance. I really don’t know what I would’ve done without you.
hi helen just got the forms to fill in could use all help possible could u please email me copies of the tree documents thank you
Greetings all, and thanks are due to BT and DPAC for launching this campaign. There have been successes reported within dwpexamination.org of folk who have used both R29 and R35 to good effect.
Due, though, to the imminent implementation of the 2013 ESA Regs, are there plans to ‘rebrand’ the campaign to suit?
As far as I can tell, the clauses that gave life to this campaign, remain within the regulations, but they are no longer in the same place(s). I’m just a layman in these matters, but it seems to me that instead of R29, the new R25 should be referred to, and likewise for R35 see new R16.
I’ve been checking here for a week, and not seen signs of movement, but I know you’re not fools, and hope someone is looking at this.
If I’m wrong, you havemy apology, and can call me owt you like, but I’d rather suffer that than see someone fail in these important arguments because R29 and R35 (in the new Regs) are about something else. ♥
Keep up the good work guys, and I’ll get mine in first – solidarity!
Just an update. I took the template letters to my GP. She filled out the letter but when she got the regulation part. She got cold feet and said she would read the details and contact me when the letter was ready. She also said that there was a charge of 30 pounds but she said she would only charge 10 for such a short thing. Have not heard a thing since. My welfare lady has sent a good report to the tribunal service. She also says I want to use these Regs. I have been in contact with my local centre for independant living for the disabled. A lady there has said she would come with me to the tribunal if her bosses will allow.
From a facebook thread on 4UP and elsewhere. I’m admin on a couple of welfare benefits groups, when I first came across this info I looked at the regs, I looked at Benefits and Works forum and noted they are still using Regs 29 and 35, and realised how the error occured. There’s a rumour going round that ESA Regs 29 and 35 (exceptional circumstances) have been replaced by Reg 25 and 31. This is not true. Regulations 29 and 35 stand. The 25 and 31 referred to in Ms Jone’s blog are draft legislation line numbers. Not statute. Check with Benefits and Work. I don’t like doing this but we do need to get it right.
This is the amended (Jan 2013) Regs 29 and 35 http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44533954/Regs%2029%20and%2035%20Jan%2013%20Amended%20text%20.doc
My colleague Sue Rogers posted this in 4UP
“they actually misread the draft regulations:
taken from draft 2012 ESA regulation….. p2 http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/esa-draft-regs-2012.pdf – they have misinterpreted the number list on the left as replacing the regulations – so number 25…… is exceptional circumstances [reg 29] and look at number 31
25. Exceptional circumstances {reg 29}
26. Conditions for treating a claimant as having limited capability for work until a determination about limited capability for work has been made {reg 30}
27. Certain claimants to be treated as not having limited capability for work {reg 32}
28. Claimants to be treated as not having limited capability for work at the end of the period covered by medical evidence {reg 32A}
29. Additional circumstances where claimants are to be treated as having limited capability for work {reg 33}
PART 5
Limited Capability for Work-related Activity
30. Determination of limited capability for work-related activity {reg 34}
31. Certain claimants to be treated as having, or not having, limited capability for work-related activity {reg 35}”
Unlike Kitty, you may not delete my comments.
You are mistaken. The amended legislation came into force on April 29th 2013
Hi
I had my atos assessment last week (not hopeful)
Have 2 fused vertebrae lower sine (inoperable)
deformed right hip ( left one is bad due to having to compensate)
arthritic knees and cartilages shot at
all mus-co – skeletal
the person who reviewed my case and decided i needed to attend
Ms Colleen Scorfield reg.no. 80F1045E ( registered nurse)
and and the assessment was conducted by Ms Tracey Chapman reg.no. 83Y3695E 9registered nurse )
i thought your case had to be looked at by somebody with the relevant experience ???????????
les
I got those dreaded words ” mus-co – skeletal” on my assessment before scoring 0 points. My assessor did not want to here any details of my disabilities, she just used this catch all phrase. Still waiting for my tribunal. its 10 months since my assessment.
just sent this to the DWP
DEAR SIR ON THE 8TH MAY I ATTENDED AN ATOS ASSESMENT . FIRSTLY I MUST COMPLAIN THAT I WAS FIRST ASKED TO ATTEND AT LEEDS A 50 MILE ROUND TRIP
WHY WHEN KEIGHLEY IS 7 1/2 MILES AWAY YOU FAIL IN YOUR DUTY OF CARE ON THIS POINT I REARANGED IT ( COSTING ME TIME AND PHONE CHARGES ) ASKED FOR IT TO BE RECORDED ATENDED WERE UNABLE TO RECORD .AGAIN I REARANGED PHONE CHARGES TIME ETC
HAVING ASKED ATOS from THE NAMES AND QUALIFICATIONS OF THE REVIEWER AND ASSESOR I WAS RATHER SURPRISED TO FIND THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DECISION ON WETHER I HAD TO ATTEND WAS A REGISTERED NURSE
As my multiple conditions are musco-skeletal it would fall to a proffesional with the relevant qualifications and experience to make this decision
the health minister has stated these decisions have to be made by proffesionals with the relevant qualification
You fail on this point also
and in this instance i would like you as the dept who has contracted Atos to contact the
“qualified” healthcare professional and provide in writing the medical reasons why they feel a face to face meeting was essential
I would also like a copy of the medical evidence gathered and held by ATOS that they have used to make any judgments on my claim
Well done Les, please let us know how you go on. I wish I knew then what I know now. I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist so I am not going to rock the boat now I am in the system. When my tribunal is over I am going to complain and complain until I get an answer. I will probably get no where but I will take up their time.
After having gone through this ordeal, once already. Appealing thier decision, living on next to nothing for nine months, until the day of the tribunal. When i was told the judge had reviewed my case and to go home and all would go back to normal and monies withheld from me was to be returned. After which i was able once again, able to afford to use my mobility car. And my works pension stopped being deducted from my benefit. Now though it’s all happening again. When upon phoneing DWP, To see if this was a mistake. I was told that the tribunals decision. Was merely thier opinion!?. And if i won my appeal again, then six months from that i’d have to do the reassessment all again. With this paperwork and my doctors support (which i fully have). Is this likely to stop? As he’s told me it’s a degenerative condition that won’t improve and to get used to it. As he’ll never be able to sign me fit for work. Which after my work which was vocational (social services and youth work) was a bitter pill to swallow. But swallow it i did and now this yet again!?